Should Black Friday be banned?

[MystyGlyttyr]

This is a discussion I've been hearing some folks bandying about, though I'm not exactly sure how it would be put into practice. But there are people who are saying that Black Friday sales and the like should be banned after the death at Wal-Mart and other reports that the frenzy around it is steadily getting worse.

On the one hand, you can't just tell stores they can't have sales, I don't think. But on the other hand, when these sales hit, bad things happen.

Like I said, I have no idea of how anyone would go about it or if it'd be plausible or anything, and even if it did, it should be the stores doing it rather than some government entity.

I really don't have any thought one way or the other myself, I've just been hearing the whispers and got curious.

[smileyeagle1021]

actually, it would be something easy to ban... just ban "doorbusters"... mandate that all sales must be for a minimum amount of time, say 24 hours and that the sale must apply equally to all shoppers doubtless of what order they arrive, ie no "additional 10% off to first 50 customers" type sales... this would reduce the urgency and rush to all be at the store at the same time and reduce the likelihood of there being enough of a frenzy that someone else is trampled to death.

[DesignFox]

I think it is up to the stores to decide what sorts of sales they are going to offer and what they will do to protect their employees from the masses. And the masses should stop acting like assholes over stupid shit that they don't need, anyway.

Would these types of problems possibly be avoided if the stores stopped the bullshit? Possibly.

Do I think it is the government's responsibility to enact laws about it? NO.

[Flyndaran]

Governmental limits on capatalism should be based on absolute evidence of harm. Very few of major sale stores have trampeling horrors. These events happen also when their are limited supplies of some new hot item, so curtailing business owners' rights won't end the public from being stupid.
As a matter of fact, I believe that the governemnt has virtually no power over people being stupid.

Unfortunately, everyone remembers the Macy's thankgiving day sale, etc. more than the responsible stores. It's good for name recognitions, and that means money, what every business is in it for.

[daleduke17]

There were two reports of deaths this year regarding Black Friday. One at a ToysRUs where two customers got into a fight and one was shot. The other was the Wal-Mart one. The government already tells businesses what to do for people's "safety", why not this?

[Amethyst Hunter]

I don't see how they could feasibly "ban" Black Friday, even if a majority of people were in favor of a ban (which I seriously doubt). There are some things that both stores and individuals can do to minimize the stress, though:

1) (Most) Stores do NOT need to open at 4 fucking o'clock in the morning. And people do NOT need to be out shopping at that ungodly hour. If you're out scrolling around at that time, you damn well better be puking sick at a 24-hour joint and buying cold medicine, because that's the only conceivable excuse I can see for going out shopping at 4 bloody am. (Or if you're on the road and getting gas or something like that. That I can understand. But piling your cart with Christmas crap? HELL NO.)

2) Increase security at stores that hold special sales. Even if you don't have any prior law enforcement experience, I would think that they'd be able to train people off the street in basic crowd control. Hey, at the local county fair every year they always hire teenagers to direct the parking... I'm sure plenty of folks would like an opportunity to earn some extra cash these days.

3) Government can't really do anything about this, nor should they attempt to.

4) People just need to chill the fuck out and STAY HOME. Or go shopping at a more reasonable time and behave their damn selves. Your kid is not going to instantly perish despite what he or she says about not getting the Latest Cool Toy-Gadget-Thingie. YOU are not going to perish instantly if you don't nab that set of linen or fancy overpriced pair of boots the second that sale tag is burned onto those items. Throwing screaming tantrums, starting fights with other shoppers, ripping things out of behaving shoppers' hands - all that just makes us sane people want to hurt you Very Badly. (And sterilize you permanently so that you don't bring any more jackassery into the world!)

Edit: Oh, and Daleduke, the Toys R Us shooting was a gang-related incident, and not part of the Black Friday stampede.

[anriana]

1) (Most) Stores do NOT need to open at 4 fucking o'clock in the morning. And people do NOT need to be out shopping at that ungodly hour. If you're out scrolling around at that time, you damn well better be puking sick at a 24-hour joint and buying cold medicine, because that's the only conceivable excuse I can see for going out shopping at 4 bloody am. (Or if you're on the road and getting gas or something like that. That I can understand. But piling your cart with Christmas crap? HELL NO.)

I work third shift. I do all of my shopping on my off days during "ungodly hours."

[smileyeagle1021]

Ditto what Anriana said... for me 4am isn't an ungodly hour, that seems like a perfectly reasonable time to shop because that's usually when I'm most awake...

[Amethyst Hunter]

Ditto what Anriana said... for me 4am isn't an ungodly hour, that seems like a perfectly reasonable time to shop because that's usually when I'm most awake...

You guys are part of the aforementioned acceptable exceptions, which I should've added to that list but didn't think to. Hell, I've gone and gotten small groceries at 6 in the morning, and I'm not normally up at that hour. I wasn't talking about people who do that kind of shopping; I mean the idiots that hang around all night outside the stores and stalk them because they just have to have that Perfect Bargain no matter what. That's the kind of Black Friday fool I want to see given a swift boot in the butt.

[Boozy]

There is no need to pass more laws to ban or regulate Black Friday.

But they do need to start enforcing the laws that are already in place. As I posted in the thread here about the Walmart employee's death, there are municipal laws in virtually every township or county requiring a police presence whenever crowds above a certain number gather, or whenever the possibility of rioting or aggression exists. But these laws are thrown to the breeze on Black Friday, when every person in town is out shopping and there are only so many police officers to go around.

[protege]

I didn't do any shopping on Black Friday. Instead, I preferred to take the MG for a spin on the back roads. No traffic and no idiots to deal with. And yes, plenty of spirited driving

Seriously though, what is it about the holidays that turns otherwise normal (and sane) people into greedy, raging idiots? Stores opening at 4am? Pardon my French, but are you fucking kidding me? I don't know about the rest of you, but I have other things I'd rather be doing at 4am. Things like sleeping

Most years, I actually start my Christmas shopping in July (gotta love the stores on vacation), and by September, I'm usually done. If there's anything else added to my shopping lists, I look for it online. I'm not about to deal with idiots (both in stores and in traffic). I do enough of that at work

Getting back to Black Friday. I don't think it's much the *sales* that are the problem. No, I think it has more to do with the rampant consumerism and the "gimme" attitude so prevalent in society now. I mean, I didn't get everything on my list when I was younger. Disappointing, but my world didn't come crashing down. I mean, did things turn to shit when that BMW Z8 model didn't appear under the tree? Was my holiday "ruined?"

Of course not. I got plenty of other things to play with As to the Z8, I simply did some shopping around after Christmas...and found one on sale. Since the box was damaged (but the parts inside were fine) I got it for half off.

[DrT]

Of course not. I got plenty of other things to play with As to the Z8, I simply did some shopping around after Christmas...and found one on sale. Since the box was damaged (but the parts inside were fine) I got it for half off.

As a matter of fact, after hollidays sales are SO much better compared to back fridays like: with all the returns, stores are dying to make sales.

[Saydrah]

No ban needed; just hold corporations liable for deaths or serious injuries incurred during Black Friday stampedes. Make sure that enormous damages can be collected, possibly greater than the store's profits from Black Friday. In addition, anyone involved in a Black Friday stampede that causes death should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

[Flyndaran]

No ban needed; just hold corporations liable for deaths or serious injuries incurred during Black Friday stampedes. Make sure that enormous damages can be collected, possibly greater than the store's profits from Black Friday. In addition, anyone involved in a Black Friday stampede that causes death should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

That sounds like frivolous lawsuit city. Charging people with crimes that cannot be reasonably convicted is bad for everyone. You really want to make a run around the legislature by forcing exhorbitant civil suits?
I still say that such deaths are the rarity rather than truly expected results from major sales. If so, then no company can be held financially accountable for the idocy of their customers. People should be responsible for their own actions.

Involuntary manslaughter is what drunk driving killers get charged with. I would prefer that idiocy and impatience get a lesser charge than willfully doing something so heinous.

One could make the argument that customers killed in such situtations were partially liable becuase they were in the FRONT of the the major sale stampede.
But either way, people are fragile, and stupidity can't be made illegal. We must all accept this and move on after tragedies.

How big of a sale does one have to be before this "hold companies liable for murders committed on their floors" suit becomes possible?
President's day sales?
After Christmas?
Day before Christmas rushes?

[Boozy]

I wouldn't think just having a sale would necessarily make a company liable for injury or deaths. Every case should be judged on its own merits.

But let's look at the specific case of the recent Wal-mart death:

- Wal-mart advertised a "door-buster sale" in which only the first 5 through the door would get a insanely cheap TV
- They allowed a mass of shoppers to gather at the doors, and provided no security at the point of entrance, nor paid for police presence
- The plan was to unlock the doors and allow everyone to rush in at once,
- They appointed one man to unlock those doors.

This is clearly negligence, in my mind.