No drugs? No worries....

[Slytovhand]

Compensation payouts/

Yep - that's right. Prisoners successfully sued for 'human rights violations', because they were unable to get their drugs in jail, and thus forced to go cold turkey!

One of many different law suits. Including sueing for a failed suicide attempt

But, amazingly enough, this wasn't in the US, but in England!

[Greenday]

Wow, that's ridiculous. The drugs are illegal. Why should they be allowed to continue illegal activities if they've already been caught? Aren't we supposed to stop them from breaking the law again?

[Boozy]

This is my first exposure to the Liverpool Daily Post, but I have to say, I am not impressed. I suspect it's a rather reactionary paper.

They seem to be using "drugs" and "methadone treatment" interchangeably. This is not the case. Methadone treatment introduces increasingly smaller quantities of opiates into a patient's system following a strict timeline in order to ease withdrawal. The patients do not get high from this treatment. Unmonitored and untreated heroin withdrawal is excruciatingly painful and can result in death. Methadone treatment as prescribed by a doctor is completely legal.

You almost have to read between the lines, but clearly this case is about prisoners being denied care for their drug withdrawal, not prisoners demanding good-time drugs.

[AFPheonix]

Thank you Boozy, took the words right out of my mouth. Coming off of opiates is not something like stopping drinking coffee. It must be managed by a physician closely and can be physically and mentally painful, not to mention harmful if not done correctly.
Methadone is not an overly expensive drug. I'm not sure why they're cutting corners on that one when some insulins can be much more expensive.

[Slytovhand]

Firstly, Boozy, it made quite a few papers and websites... I just happened across that one first. They all say pretty much the same sort of thing - with slightly different emphasis.

Here's a quote from Timesonline:

The prisoners had been using methadone paid for by the Government but it was decided that they should go through cold turkey detoxification instead. They claimed that their human rights had been breached under Articles 3 and 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which bans discrimination, or inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

I think the issue is that it is prisoners - you know, the people who have done hurt or harm to other people in society - people who in all likelihood won't get a cent in compensation for the injuries done to them...

[Flyndaran]

...
I think the issue is that it is prisoners - you know, the people who have done hurt or harm to other people in society - people who in all likelihood won't get a cent in compensation for the injuries done to them...

So steal a car and suffer untreated health problems?
That's a bit harsher than I would prefer.
Drug addiction is not a moral issue. It is a health and legal issue.

[Boozy]

I think the issue is that it is prisoners - you know, the people who have done hurt or harm to other people in society - people who in all likelihood won't get a cent in compensation for the injuries done to them...

I'm not surprised you would say something like this, Slyt. After all, I believe it was you who said you would have no problem with cutting off hands as punishment for shoplifting.

All I can say is that I hope you never make a serious mistake in your entire life. And if you do, and find yourself in the criminal justice system, I wish better treatment for you than you would wish for others.

[Slytovhand]

I don't recall saying that one, Boozy. Perhaps in a certain context of understanding other cultures, or just as a debating point in general.

'A' serious mistake? Or a series of them? To end up in jail with a drug addiction, the person must have first acquired that addiction, and (if they're not in for possession) also committed some other crime of such a serious nature to give jail time - either that, or have been given their 3 strikes or numerous opportunities to avoid jail... and still kept doing it. At that point, what they are doing is not a mistake - it's a life choice. And choices have consequences. If they don't pay them, who does?

I have compassion - but not sympathy. And I believe in responsibility. And that actions have consequences.

I'll tell you a story (which is very OT). I had a fiance many years ago, who had had a cancer scare some years before we met. She was still a bit freakish about this, and it still manifested some years later. I was having an issue with this, as it was having an effect on how she dealt with things in the here and now (ie - living in denial). I had a chat with a friend of mine about this, who confided in me that she also had a cancer issue. She lived in denial too - all happy happy joy joy. Until the time she ended up in a heap on the floor with a nervous breakdown. And, in her words, she needed to. Sometimes, you've got to sink to the bottom - so that you can finally kick yourself back up again. Anyone who tries to help only gets dragged down to drown with you.

So, that's an idea of why I'm the way I am.... (well, was before that, but this story sort of gave it expression).

[Boozy]

I don't recall saying that one, Boozy. Perhaps in a certain context of understanding other cultures, or just as a debating point in general.

Here's the post I was referring to:

http://www.fratching.com/showpost.ph...3&postcount=32

It may have been tongue-in-cheek, but it didn't read that way to me.

[Slytovhand]

Ah... I see.

Well, partly tongue in cheek, partly not.

If you're in a society where the punishment is to have a hand cut off for 'theft of desire', then yes, what would you expect?

So, every so slightly different to actually suggesting it be introduced as a punishment, but I get why it can be read that way.

Hmmm - need to see if a thread has been started, and if not, then start it....

[DesignFox]

I don't believe that the prisoners should be denied their treatment. Drug addiction is a crazy problem...not so cut and dry as to say "you made your bed, lie in it."

Besides, how can that one guy that honestly wants to change his ways have the opportunity to do so if he can't get the treatment he needs to overcome his addictions?

The article reads a little fishy to me...like there's a lot of stuff we aren't being told.

[Evandril]

For most drugs/addictions, I'd tend to have no problem with the 'cold turkey' route... For the ones that have a *good* chance of killing you? Yeah, not helping them might be 'fair', but 'tis also cruel. Sort of like denying medical care to someone who didn't follow the 'walk' signals, and got their foot crushed by a car. Yeah, they made the choice to break the law, but the punishment isn't fitting the 'crime'.