Wal-Mart caves to SCs, allows them to get cartloads of "free"groceries

[siead_lietrathua]

just a slight devils advocate here. with the way the economy is, some of the people ya'll are talking about could have bought those nice things before losing jobs or other hardships. and now having to keep up with the big bills they have, they resort to assistance.
yes, they could sell off all the belongings they bought while they had money, but why should they, or anyone else, have to? especially if they are only on social assistance for a few months till they get a new job.

i know there are people that scam. i'm just saying, with the rate of people losing jobs, maybe we can try not to assume they're a leech, and instead just new (and temporary) members on the system.


EDIT: i am not reffering to the people that went insan-o in the OP article, just the generic, steriotypical comments in later posts

[Lace Neil Singer]

just a slight devils advocate here. with the way the economy is, some of the people ya'll are talking about could have bought those nice things before losing jobs or other hardships. and now having to keep up with the big bills they have, they resort to assistance.

Not the people I'm talking about. Like this woman here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Daybreak.html

And this guy: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0th-child.html

And don't forget this woman: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/378...o-keep-a-HORSE

These people have never worked, yet they have enough money in handouts to buy luxuries that the hard working public can only dream of. I'm not sticking it to people who bought stuff when they were better off; hell, I have a designer coat that I bought in a sale. It's just the lazy arses who get massive handouts when I get penalised for being responsible and working to support myself, rather than sitting back and letting the taxpayer support me who annoy me.

Edit: Oh, and the damp in the house in the second article? Would come off easily if someone just got off their fat backside and scrubbed it off. My flat has damp, yet you wouldn't know if you visited cuz I clean it off. They're willing to let their kids suffer just so they can show off the damp to visitors and cite it as a reason why they should have a bigger house.

[Andara Bledin]

If you honestly don't like that people are using the system in ways you don't approve of but are legal within the system, then fix the damn system.

And, really, the whining about "Susie didn't have to work as hard as I did" is really irritating.

Fun fact: making people do without is a bigger drain on the economy than just paying for their asses to be lazy. Sure, it's grating that they're lazy and don't have to actually be responsible adults, but you're not going to fix them by punishing their children, it just perpetuates the cycle.

[Racket_Man]

just a slight devils advocate here. with the way the economy is, some of the people ya'll are talking about could have bought those nice things before losing jobs or other hardships. and now having to keep up with the big bills they have, they resort to assistance.
yes, they could sell off all the belongings they bought while they had money, but why should they, or anyone else, have to? especially if they are only on social assistance for a few months till they get a new job.

i know there are people that scam. i'm just saying, with the rate of people losing jobs, maybe we can try not to assume they're a leech, and instead just new (and temporary) members on the system.


EDIT: i am not reffering to the people that went insan-o in the OP article, just the generic, steriotypical comments in later posts

Some of these people I have been delivering to for literally YEARS. ALL the drivers know the addresses by heart. most of the people I posted about above are not the "I need help for a couple of months or 6 months" type. The phone numbers may change every 4 - 6 months (going through "burn phones" if you will) BUT the address stay the same. The people stay the same. Same shit the every beginning of the month. the same PEOPLE order crap loads of pizza and I see the same things consistently (with occasional upgrades in gadgets).

[siead_lietrathua]

Some of these people I have been delivering to for literally YEARS. ALL the drivers know the addresses by heart. most of the people I posted about above are not the "I need help for a couple of months or 6 months" type. The phone numbers may change every 4 - 6 months (going through "burn phones" if you will) BUT the address stay the same. The people stay the same. Same shit the every beginning of the month. the same PEOPLE order crap loads of pizza and I see the same things consistently (with occasional upgrades in gadgets).

mhm. again, was just being the devils advocate. we have people like that too in my community. but there are others that, while looking the same, are not leeches.
while the steriotypes are out there, they are a smaller part of the "social care" pie then people realize. people that fraud the system seem to hit at less than 2% from what i find.
(if you google stats, you find mostly about applicants being in the 24% mark, a later debunked number, but applicants =/= people that made it into the system)

[Lace Neil Singer]

There are plenty of people I know who only claim benefits cuz they're being taxed to oblivion like me, and who need stuff like tax credits to make up the deficit. I'd come off benefits in a heartbeat if I was allowed to keep more of my paycheck.

Oh, and I vote in the elections. That's about all I can do to fix the problem, seeing as I am a member of the despised working class, who always gets ignored by the toffs in power at the moment.

[smileyeagle1021]

And, really, the whining about "Susie didn't have to work as hard as I did" is really irritating.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about someone not working as hard... I've only heard people complaining about not working. I hold no ill will against those who are incredibly smart and find ways to legitimately make money without having to do as much work (I hold no ill will against Bill Gates for having the genius to come up with a user friendly operating system that made him filthy rich... and yes, I know there is some unsavory things that he did that I do hold against him, but that is a different point) or incredibly lucky (the guy who won the lottery had the same chance at it as I did). What I do hear people complain about, and I'll join with them in a heart beat, are the people who are plain lazy and don't even try to work.

[Panacea]

And yet they complain that they don't get enough
Mom used to have a neighbor like that who would complain bitterly how unfair it was that we got to go on a major vacation at least once a year and would go on weekend trips in the RV every couple of months.

It's not about fairness. It's about what you earn. Your Mom earned it. Her neighbor did not. I live a pretty comfortable middle class life, but I can't afford a major vacation every year, and don't have an RV (as much as I'd like to). Of course, that also means I'm prioritizing my life differently: investing in my health, my retirement as opposed to burdening myself with excessive debt to enjoy a lifestyle I can't sustain in my elder years.

Fun fact: making people do without is a bigger drain on the economy than just paying for their asses to be lazy. Sure, it's grating that they're lazy and don't have to actually be responsible adults, but you're not going to fix them by punishing their children, it just perpetuates the cycle.

When Clinton signed major welfare reform legislation in 1996, people had to work to get benefits. It did a lot to get the "welfare queens" (who weren't as numerous as one would have you believe) off their butts and to a job of some sort.

The case in the article link of the family of 9 kids does grate; Dad could use a condom, and Mom could take birth control: in the UK they could get BC for free. It is the height of irresponsibly to continue having children you can't afford.

Whatever Dad does with his time, it's not maintaining his rental property. The grass is not mowed, and an old appliance is dumped in the back yard instead of being recycled in some way (sold off, taken to the dump, whatever). I get that Dad has COPD. However, a simple respirator, and tackling the indoor work in small spurts would fix that problem. What the hell does this guy do with his time all day?

TSP mixed with bleach would fix the mold problem. It's what I used in my bathroom, and it hasn't come back.

Some of these people I have been delivering to for literally YEARS. ALL the drivers know the addresses by heart. most of the people I posted about above are not the "I need help for a couple of months or 6 months" type. The phone numbers may change every 4 - 6 months (going through "burn phones" if you will) BUT the address stay the same. The people stay the same. Same shit the every beginning of the month. the same PEOPLE order crap loads of pizza and I see the same things consistently (with occasional upgrades in gadgets).

I've seen these kinds of people, too. I saw them when I delivered pizza, and I saw them working for hospice.

I also saw lots of poor folks who had much less yet whose homes were spotless. They might have been poor, but they had pride in themselves.

It's easy to remember the irritating ones; they stand out in our memories. But they're actually fewer than you'd think.

People getting benefits should have to subject themselves to strict supervision: no drug dealers living in their homes. They should have to work on community projects, even if they hold a full time job, to pay for their benefits. Even the physically disabled could do some kind of sit down work in the vast majority of cases. Or, they should be enrolled full time in school for job retraining.

It shouldn't be a hand out. You should give something in order to get.

[DGoddess]

People getting benefits should have to subject themselves to strict supervision: no drug dealers living in their homes. They should have to work on community projects, even if they hold a full time job, to pay for their benefits. Even the physically disabled could do some kind of sit down work in the vast majority of cases. Or, they should be enrolled full time in school for job retraining.

It shouldn't be a hand out. You should give something in order to get.

A couple of coworkers and I got into a similar discussion yesterday at work about welfare leeches and we pretty much agree with that statement: you should do something, even if it's picking up trash on the side of the road, in order to earn your benefits.

In the case of someone legitimately disabled, that's another story. Those folks are the ones we should be taking care of so it's not so much of a burden to those families who are trying to fill in the gaps without depleting them as well.

Those who are working and trying to take care of themselves and be responsible should also receive assistance if they aren't making enough to meet their basic necessities of housing, food, health care and shelter on what they make. There should be no penalty except for those able bodied ones who can but choose not to contribute to the greater good of all persons.

[Aethian]

I don't know if you guys remember me talking about the section 8 apartment complex I used to deliver to but I saw every end of the scale there. Some of them were those that had everything and lost it all with major job loss due to a my raid if things. They were the ones that I loved talking to because they were only there as a temp situation.

Then there were the ones who had problems holding a job because if med issues. No job = no meds, no meds = no job...vicious cycle.

Of course there were the ones that most of us dislike with a passion. Spending 700 in shoes and not having diapers. Chasing me down for their checks. Threatening me with a major beat down when I don't just hand them over. I worked hard to get the names updated on that place to make sure the mail was delivered right...and still I would have place jumpers. Had one guy that I had to call the cops on three times just because he was trying to steal other peoples mail. Banned from the property and would be there a week later. After awhile the cops would take longer and longer to respond and I finally told the boss that I refused to deliver there.

[Lace Neil Singer]

The case in the article link of the family of 9 kids does grate; Dad could use a condom, and Mom could take birth control: in the UK they could get BC for free. It is the height of irresponsibly to continue having children you can't afford.

Whatever Dad does with his time, it's not maintaining his rental property. The grass is not mowed, and an old appliance is dumped in the back yard instead of being recycled in some way (sold off, taken to the dump, whatever). I get that Dad has COPD. However, a simple respirator, and tackling the indoor work in small spurts would fix that problem. What the hell does this guy do with his time all day?

TSP mixed with bleach would fix the mold problem. It's what I used in my bathroom, and it hasn't come back.

Plus, who's to say that moving the family would fix the problem? The parents wouldn't magically become more houseproud. Their new house would eventually turn into a tip, so what is the point of giving them a new house to ruin?

As for the kids, perhaps the social services ought to get involved. They might be happier and healthier in foster care with parents who care enough to clean the house and maintain the garden.

Also, I don't believe that the father has any problems; according to the article, he chainsmokes rollers. Even if he does have emphysemia, there's plenty of jobs he could do which wouldn't involve hard physical work. A friend of my parents has lung problems and she works. True, she works from home, but she's still earning money and contributing.

[Dreamstalker]

Mom's on Social Security (due to age) and Disability; she qualifies for a whopping $13 a month in foodstamps. She has a $300-a-month little bitty apartment and she's having trouble making ends meet even that way >_<

I read/heard something where a guy tried to live on the usual allowance here of about $4/day (about what I'm getting). Unless you have an existing stockpile and/or can get creative, that's not happening.

Not everyone who gets food stamps, though, gets a cash benefit. At least not to my knowledge in North Carolina (laws may be different varying on state?)

I don't get cash benefits, although I've been told that I should based on what I pay toward our utilities (in MA, EBT also has cash benefits that can be used to pay for utilities).

[EricKei]

I feel this is fraud, plain and simple.... I hope they drop a hammer on the scammers who took advantage.

It seems the State of Louisiana agrees with you. Their response to the issue, as of Oct 30.

Not everyone who gets food stamps, though, gets a cash benefit.

True. AFAIK, most do not. (Even without it, fraud still takes place, allowing people to "sell" their benefits, despite the penalties presumably involved if they get caught)

And there's no Section 8 help either. The waiting list is at least 2 years long already (might be 3 by now with this economy.)

I checked last summer or so -- I was (and still am) in a financial situation where I would qualify for it, and the landlord (where I was living at the time) was willing to change over to accommodate it...As of that time, they were not even accepting applications to be put on the waiting list in my area, as the waiting list, as of that time, was at the point where they estimated that it would take them two years to deal with them all -- by which, I mean "get to the point where you could begin the Section 8 application process." >_<

[Panacea]

Also, I don't believe that the father has any problems; according to the article, he chainsmokes rollers. Even if he does have emphysemia, there's plenty of jobs he could do which wouldn't involve hard physical work. A friend of my parents has lung problems and she works. True, she works from home, but she's still earning money and contributing.

Oh, I believe he has emphysema. I know many COPDers who continue to smoke despite their diagnosis. However, if it's not landing him in the hospital on a regular basis, then his disease is still mild and he could do some kind of work. He needs to be retrained to something he CAN do. Part of his excuse is he prefers working outdoors. Well, too bad. The kind of work he wants to do is irrelevant. Like your friend, he can work. I've done jobs I hated, in order to pay my bills.

It seems the State of Louisiana agrees with you. Their response to the issue, as of Oct 30.

This doesn't go far enough IMHO. They should be prosecuted for theft, and banned for good on the basis of being a felon.

I wonder if Wal Mart has fired to managers responsible for this mess?

[EricKei]

So far, it's just been politicians *calling for* exactly that. Part of the article mentions that the DCFS is attempting to obtain permission to go after the customers in some way, as the DCFS itself is not a law enforcement agency; I think that all they can really do directly is to kick people out of the program.

I'm guessing that it may be up to the State to decide whether to file suit against individuals (I am assuming it can be proved who got what). Maybe even Wal-Mart can try to pursue them for theft or something related (???), tho I imagine that the State might not be allowed to release name/address information to anyone but other governmental agencies such as the cops. -- they do have video cameras, after all. IANAL.

As has been noted already in this thread, Wal-Mart did violate its own policy regarding the purchase limits, so my guess would be that getting their money back is unlikely. The State did not actually fork over any taxpayer money for the transactions in question, according to the article.