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  • A talk about bullying.

    Ok I'm not entirely sure what to call this but it started when people talked about stopping cyberbullying as though that would magically fix the problem. It's basically a big bundle of frustrations about bullying and abuse that I typed on to the screen.

    1. Focusing on one area only
    I’ve been seeing in the news lately about how people are fighting cyberbullying and sexual harassment. The problem with this is it only fights one symptom but leaves the disease intact. When I was a kid cyberbullying was not a thing, at that time there wasn’t even myspace yet let alone facebook but it didn’t stop the bullying, it didn’t stop the sexual harassment it didn’t stop anything. I remember people riding past my house insulting me, I remember crank phone calls, I remember being attacked walking home multiple times. If someone had been harassing me online unless you made it stop everywhere it wouldn’t matter I’d still be terrified, I’ll still be bullied. I know why this is happening because it’s the only place they have proof and have it in writing but the real problem is still there. You need to get in those classrooms, you need to speak to the kids face to face.

    2. Understand how behaviour develops
    People aren’t born bullies, people aren’t born assholes. They are taught somewhere that this behaviour is ok and little is done to stop that. This can have some terrifying consequences, because it’s simple they are taught that they are better than other people and what they do is ok. When they get older the way they treated that kid in second grade might be a strong indicator of how they treat their girlfriends. Now people do change but only when they have to, only when there is reason to when there is no punishment there is no consequences then they will keep being these douchebags for the rest of their life and raise their own little douchebag.

    3. Victim Blaming
    Now this is a big one and honestly happens in every form of abuse and assault. Stop telling the kid they made themselves a target, stop telling them it’s their fault. Over and over again I was told it was my fault, even the people close to me would just keep telling me “you make yourself a target”, “you just look so angry all the time.” All this does is remove the blame from where it belongs and avoids fixing the problem while also probably creating serious emotional problems for the victim later on. Here’s the thing, it doesn’t matter what the victim does. I was in grade 4, I wore white shoes. One day a kid in grade 8 starting punching me in the face in the middle of the hall. After we were pulled into the principles office with me in tears he defended himself saying I was wearing “fairy shoes.” That was it, and he even said it right to the principle he didn’t like my shoes, it didn’t matter how I talked, acted or looked the simple fact that I was smaller than him and he didn’t like my shoes meant I deserved to get beat up.

    4. Put the blame where it belongs
    While a certain amount of the blame does belong on the bully the blame also goes to those who had the power to stop it. When you are being bullied in school here are the list of people around you: teachers, other school employees and other students. Each of these groups do deserve some of the blame as well. The other students honestly probably don’t deserve much blame but every time they see something and don’t report it they are supporting the activity. The teachers and other employees are the worst though because they are the ones who have the authority and ability to step in and usually don’t. And like I said this reinforces the behaviour of the bully.

    5. Understand the victim’s behaviour
    There are many different types of bullying but usually it’s an ongoing problem. This usually happens when they are a child, this means that during the years where they are learning how to socialize they are being put through a large amount of abuse and that creates issues. The same way that adult abuse victims don’t leave their abusers the child victims don’t know what else to do or where to go. They will develop defence mechanisms over time and ways of dealing with stuff. I used to push people away rather than risk they would be yet another bully and preferred to be on my own. This both helped and hurt but it’s all I had. Small things will matter to them because they want some control over their life, they may wear a shirt that looks silly but they are wearing it because it means they are not letting the bullies control their life, this is where not blaming the victim is important. If I got made fun of for wearing a certain shirt or watch I might wear it again because of that, if you say “it’s your fault for wearing that” instead of “wear what you want” YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM because you’ve taught them that it doesn’t matter what they like it matters what everybody else thinks. Further the victim is not exactly going to be a happy person and bugging them about not being happy makes the problem worse.
    Further the same way a woman is probably right to assume that guy on the street may attack her why shouldn’t a bulling victim assume that every new person is a bully. I mean they’ve been taught over and over again that it’s their fault right? Something about them just naturally makes bullies appear in even the nicest people so why shouldn’t they assume this about everyone and just act like everyone is out to get them?

    6. They’re not just words
    Oh god, nothing cause more problems than this attitude. If words aren’t a problem then why does everybody get mad when someone uses the N word? Words matter. I have a right to be called by my name, I have a right not be made fun of for who I am.

    7. "Why are you so upset they said that?"
    Here’s something adults don’t get, while words hurt it’s not the words themselves but the fact that the words were said. Yes getting upset over a stupid nickname you don’t like is dumb but it’s not the nickname itself that is the issue. The issue is the simple fact that it was said, that this person decided that their happiness is not only more important than mine but must in fact come at the expense of mine. It tells me I am less than them, it tells me I don’t have the same rights to happiness.

    8. It all adds up
    One kid calling me fat may not make that big an impact but every person doing it everyday will add up and create a problem. After a while it becomes an almost background noise where it doesn’t even matter what was said or even who said it. It becomes selfsustaining, it becomes a toxic poison that can take years to get out of a person’s mind.

    9. Treating the symptom not the disease
    The victim is the symptom and the bully is the disease not the other way around. Most of the efforts I remember were centered on me and not on the bully. Sure when he beat me up he’d get suspended but he’d be right back at it a few days later with no change. Me on the other hand in grades 7 and 8 I was kept in at lunch hour and allowed to read in the library for my own safety. At the time I liked it because I could be by myself but these days it pisses me the fuck off. They knew there was a problem and rather than fix the problem they decided to just separate me altogether so they could ignore it. I remember being pulled out of class a lot to speak to people who I realize now were counsellors and trying to understand me. Here’s the thing, I wasn’t the problem, I wasn’t the one with something wrong with me, make the bullies talk to the counsellors. There were also teachers that tried to “socialize” me by making me do things, once a kid asked me to play tetherball, I don’t like tetherball so I said no thanks. I got lectured by my teacher in front of the class for that because she had asked them to ask me. I got threatened with detention if I didn’t join the soccer team.

    10. Stop ignoring the problem
    Every time you tell me to ignore it, to not let it bother me, you can’t do anything because you didn’t see it, it’s no big deal and many more you are ignoring the problem. Here’s the thing, first off if I’m coming to you that means it is a problem and usually it’s not the first time. This is the warning sign right here and now this is your chance to solve a minor problem before it becomes a big problem, sit the bully down and talk to them. You are teaching the victim that you will not help even when directly asked and therefore it’s a waste of time to ask you later. People wonder why things aren’t reported, well it’s because we’ve been taught that reporting them is useless.

    11. Little acts matter
    Remember the story of me being beaten up over my shoes, it was stopped because one of my classmates ran and got the principal, out of everyone watching one person acted. I still remember exactly that is to this day, almost 20 years later.

    12. Recognize that bullies come in all shapes and sizes
    I’ve been harassed by people younger, older, smaller, larger and by members of the opposite sex. Here’s the thing yes someone younger than me can be a bully to me because if I retaliate I get punished but if I report them everybody’s reaction is well you’re twice the size of them what are they going to do? If the bully is bigger then you know they can destroy you so you don’t hit back until you reach a point where you just don’t care anymore. The biggest problem though was when the bully was an adult, I had teachers make fun of me in front of the class because I didn’t smile much. On the bus the other students repeatedly threw things at me, even half eaten apples out the window as they drove away and we got our parents to call the bus company over and over again and the driver wouldn’t do a damn thing. One day I threw something back and got kicked off the bus for three days while the driver grinned because I'd gotten him in trouble but noone else had ever gotten kicked off.

    13. When the victim starts to stand up for themselves recognize it and help
    Things take time and continuously telling them over and over again to hit back when they think the bully can hurt them is another form of blaming the victim. Things don’t happen overnight and it will take time but some victims will start to stand up for themselves but they don’t know how to do it. Everytime I started to stand up for myself my parents would get mad at me despite them telling me too in the past. One time I snapped and yelled and swore at a student who had bullied me constantly for months and I got suspended and my parents were furious... at me. Not at the kid, not at the school for letting it get to this point but at me for getting in trouble. The victim is not practiced in hiding their actions like the bully is and will lash out probably in public either get involved and help them be constructive with the energy or make the bully stop but punishing the victim without even talking about the bully will only make things worse. I’m not saying I shouldn’t have been punished but somebody should have at least talked to me and asked what was going on and then talk to that other kid. All I learned was standing up for yourself just gets you in trouble.

    14. Well alright then how do I help?
    First off pay attention and listen, sometimes the victim just wants someone to listen and that is the hardest thing to find sometimes. Next recognize when your actions don’t help, I once spent half an hour talking my mom out of walking into a classroom full of kids and yelling at them, because it would just make it worse. Take actions that will help talk to the teachers and parents and make it stop. There are tons of workshops for kids to take that don’t center out specific people that can help teach respect. Don’t make the victim and bully work together in hopes they become friends because it just doesn’t work. If the school again and again refuse to be involved go to the police, if the police do nothing get a lawyer, sue the school. Don’t do one action and assume the problem is solved, keep your eyes open and dig deeper the problem will come back. Talk to the bully, find out what’s going on. Understand that you are the one with the authority, the victim is a victim because they have no power to make it stop but most likely you do. Here’s one bit of advice that I think can work too, give the bully something else to do, I don’t mean chores or punishment I mean give them something to do. I think a large part of the issue was there wasn’t anything else to do. Also make sure the victim knows the bully was punished, it will let them know they can come to you and something will happen.

    15. I’m just a kid how can I help
    There is always standing up for the kid directly but yes this is scary and may be dangerous. Go get the adult, tell them, tell your parents. You see a kid getting beat up on street corner call the cops. There are things you can do. Talk to the other kids later victim or bully and listen and help them understand.

    16. But isn’t it just horsing around? Isn’t it all in good fun? Doesn’t it make kids stronger?
    Um, just shut up. Just shut the hell up. It’s only in good fun when both sides are having fun. Bullying only makes the bully stronger never the victim. There is a difference between joking with someone and bullying them. This is once again just ignoring the problem.

    17. Awareness days
    Awareness days are bullshit. There I said it. So you wore pink or purple one day, the problem doesn’t magically go away because even if the problem stops the one day it will pick right back up again the next day. There’s talk about how much kids forget over the summer after being in school for 9-10 months do you really think 1 day is going to make that much of a difference? Make it happen regularly make them actually do something other than wearing a certain color. Make it mean something. People are already aware bullying exists the problem is they ignore it.
    Last edited by gremcint; 10-17-2013, 09:55 PM.

  • #2
    18. when a kid is yelling DIE! DIE! DIE! in another kid's face literally right in front of you, that is far beyond the time to tell the kid off. Letting it happen, with only a mild look of interest? just makes the victim suspicious you actually approve of the bullying. ( guess which one I was, and yes, this actually happened)

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    • #3
      Adding to the understanding and the difference between a child and adult, one of the key problems (for me) was that I was forced to go back to the place where the bully is. Every day. I dreaded coming back, it took me 1 hour to make the 10 minute trip to school every day, simply because my imagination was running wild and I was imagening that today might actually be a good day (looking back, half of them were. Relatively speaking).

      The adult version of this would be... what? An abused woman being forced to stay half-supervised with her abuser every day until she graduates?

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      • #4
        how about a woman's abusive husband being given visitation rights?

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        • #5
          More like giving the abuser the new address of the woman. ( Incidentally, how DOES visitation work in cases of Domestic Violence)

          Back on bullying: One big problem is that bullies just get a slap on the wrist. Detention is usually just an excuse to Karl about, and suspensions are usually considered a day off. They need to make actually punishing detentions ( assisting the cleaning staff? Something other than sitting in a room, anyway. ) and properly punish bullies. A member of the football team is bullying younger kids? "X is no longer a member of X team" - I bet withdrawal of privileges would make the bullies think twice.

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          • #6
            Can I get a "HELL FUCK YES" to the entire OP?

            I went through a lot of crap growing up, and the adults who should have helped protect me were for the most part, worse than useless. I got the victim blaming, lectures about blending in, and was told to ignore it, and "stay away from them". None of it did a damn bit of good.

            I agree, we need to start going after the bullies, not the victims.

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            • #7
              It is unreasonable to expect someone to be punished with no evidence but your say-so, *even if you are a bullying victim.* Because they cannot know for certain that you're telling the truth. More specifically, even though you *almost* certainly are being truthful, responding that way would encourage people to make false claims of bullying against people they want in trouble, even to using that as a method of bullying itself.

              That doesn't mean they shouldn't ask around, or pay extra close attention, but "I can't do anything unless I see it" is pretty much right, at least provided that not seeing doesn't mean not looking, and that seeing includes the existence of other forms of evidence.
              "My in-laws are country people and at night you can hear their distinctive howl."

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              • #8
                There were also teachers that tried to “socialize” me by making me do things, once a kid asked me to play tetherball, I don’t like tetherball so I said no thanks. I got lectured by my teacher in front of the class for that because she had asked them to ask me. I got threatened with detention if I didn’t join the soccer team.
                This one makes me see red. I always hated it when adults thought they were being so helpful by essenually forcing you into doing something. Let me guess, they acted all concerned while making you look like the bad guy for wanting to be your own person. What they failed to realize was that there was a reason I didn't want to socialize with certain people, mainly the people they were forcing me to socialize with were douchebags. I've had kids include me in something... only to use that as a reason to make fun of me. Yeah, I really want to be friends with those people!

                I think that's part of the reason I'm so cynical of people. It seems that someone always has an agenda. But somehow, you end up feeling like the asshole for not wanting to be manipulated or forced into something.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HYHYBT View Post
                  It is unreasonable to expect someone to be punished with no evidence but your say-so, *even if you are a bullying victim.* Because they cannot know for certain that you're telling the truth. More specifically, even though you *almost* certainly are being truthful, responding that way would encourage people to make false claims of bullying against people they want in trouble, even to using that as a method of bullying itself.

                  That doesn't mean they shouldn't ask around, or pay extra close attention, but "I can't do anything unless I see it" is pretty much right, at least provided that not seeing doesn't mean not looking, and that seeing includes the existence of other forms of evidence.
                  ever heard of investigating? teachers witnessing an incident isn't the only form of evidence there is. Try asking other kids- there are usually impartial witnesses to most cases of bullying. Fact of the matter is, most bullying occurs out of sight of teachers because bullies aren't stupid. If bullying is only punished when teachers see it, then you are just allowing it to occur. For that matter, most schools have security cameras. Why not pull the security camera footage? If you know there are other forms of evidence, USE THEM.

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                  • #10
                    On the words and nickname thing. Back in middle school I was very into Dragon Ball Z. Had 2 shirts. One long sleeve and one t-shirt. Wore em all the time. Kids kept calling me super sayian Rebecca. You think, "oh hey cool nickname!" Not in the way they said it. It was very condenscening. That was one of many things that I was bullied about.

                    My dad tried to stop me from wearing such things. But that made my self esteem worse than the bullies did. Sad isn't it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rageaholic View Post
                      This one makes me see red. I always hated it when adults thought they were being so helpful by essenually forcing you into doing something. Let me guess, they acted all concerned while making you look like the bad guy for wanting to be your own person. What they failed to realize was that there was a reason I didn't want to socialize with certain people, mainly the people they were forcing me to socialize with were douchebags. I've had kids include me in something... only to use that as a reason to make fun of me. Yeah, I really want to be friends with those people!
                      Went through similar at the same school where I had to deal with the bus bullies - except it was over dodgeball.

                      Screw that. I simply went out on the playground and sat off to the side on a hilly section and, while it appeared I was watching them, I was actually daydreaming about other things.

                      Must have been where I first came up with story ideas . . .

                      As far as the teachers forcing me, Mom put a stop to that real quick IIRC. One talk with the teacher and I don't recall the teacher trying to force me into it again.

                      I simply preferred being by myself even then - most of the kids I went to school with were douchebags or skanks in training. And even then, I didn't want to be associated with those kinds of folks - simply b/c of guilt by association and I was frankly too good to be around them.
                      If life hands you lemons . . . find someone whose life is handing them vodka . . . and have a party - Ron "Tater Salad" White

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by s_stabeler View Post
                        More like giving the abuser the new address of the woman. ( Incidentally, how DOES visitation work in cases of Domestic Violence)
                        Two possibilities - if the domestic violence is just spouse-on-spouse abuse, most likely the exchange point for the visitation is set at a neutral location - a McDonald's near one of the parents' houses, for example. Some place where violent behavior will be VERY noticed.

                        If there's a chance of parent-on-child abuse, then monitored visitation is called for - an unrelated third party is hired as a monitor, and stays within sight of the child for the duration of the visitation. Having been a monitor at one point, I can tell you it's a pain in the ass for everyone involved.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by s_stabeler View Post
                          ever heard of investigating? teachers witnessing an incident isn't the only form of evidence there is. Try asking other kids- there are usually impartial witnesses to most cases of bullying. Fact of the matter is, most bullying occurs out of sight of teachers because bullies aren't stupid. If bullying is only punished when teachers see it, then you are just allowing it to occur. For that matter, most schools have security cameras. Why not pull the security camera footage? If you know there are other forms of evidence, USE THEM.
                          Why the when I specifically said that other forms of evidence qualify as seeing?

                          The fact remains that there are not always witnesses, there are especially not always witnesses willing to come forward, and cameras don't catch everything. There will be many cases where the only evidence, at least at the time of the accusation, is the accusation itself. That's reason to look for more, but *unless and until more is found* what do you expect?
                          "My in-laws are country people and at night you can hear their distinctive howl."

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                          • #14
                            I was bullied up through 7th grade. My family moved before my 8th grade year and luckily it didn't continue. I kept a low profile and tried not to bring attention to myself. It worked for me, though I understand each situation is different.

                            I remember one time I pushed a kid who had cut in front of me in line. We were both sent to the vice principal's office and both got a day of suspension.

                            My parents' reaction? Way to finally stand up for yourself! Enjoy the day! Play video games during the day! (Normally restricted to just on weekends)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mr Hero View Post
                              I was bullied up through 7th grade. My family moved before my 8th grade year and luckily it didn't continue. I kept a low profile and tried not to bring attention to myself. It worked for me, though I understand each situation is different.

                              I remember one time I pushed a kid who had cut in front of me in line. We were both sent to the vice principal's office and both got a day of suspension.

                              My parents' reaction? Way to finally stand up for yourself! Enjoy the day! Play video games during the day! (Normally restricted to just on weekends)
                              That was my parents' reaction after I snapped and beat the shit out of one of the bullies who'd been making my life hell at school for two and a half years. She and her followers (she called them friends) were calling me names, telling me to commit suicide and "do the world a favour", leaving spiteful notes in my desk, pinching, slapping, pushing and tripping me, and finally telling everyone else in my year to leave me alone. Only two girls had the guts to be my friends.

                              The bully came up to me and scratched my face; I punched her several times and kicked her stomach til a teacher ran up and pulled me off her. I got suspended for a week and it was like having a week's holiday cuz my parents took my side, especially after finding out that the bully didn't get punished at all cuz, in the headmaster's words, "she was worse hurt".
                              "Oh wow, I can't believe how stupid I used to be and you still are."

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