who is a terrorist?

[Salesmonkey]

When did being a terrorist switch from what you do to what you say?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...etained-uk-nsa

Or what you know? Or whom you love? The people who talk about a "slippery slope" of counter-revolutionary behaviour seem to be sliding down it themselves pretty hard.

Violence is a crime that hurts people. Speech, knowledge, and thought will make them feel bad only if they deserve it.

[Greenday]

He purposely associates himself with a person known to be interested in the destabilization of governments.

Your assertion that speech and thought only makes people feel bad if they deserve it is pretty false at that. Those two things are what leads to violence.

It's clearly improper use of force to be detaining someone just because they are the boyfriend of someone who dissents. But this is 2013. When you are close to people who actively spread secret information of your government or your government's allies, you will attract scrutiny and you know it. It is not in the government's best interest to allow such information be passed along freely.

[Andara Bledin]

Wait. Is someone seriously defending the actions against Greenwald's partner?

Wow.

[Greenday]

Wait. Is someone seriously defending the actions against Greenwald's partner?

Wow.

I'm explaining the actions.

[Andara Bledin]

The actions of a government who went to the newspaper, demanded information, and when it wasn't handed over, they demanded the destruction of a server that they admitted wouldn't stop the paper from still having the information.

Nevermind that the person detained is the partner of a journalist. Miranda doesn't associate with anyone other than Greenwald, and Greenwald is a member of the 4th estate. Their actions were mob-style thuggery.

All because they're embarrassed at the fact that their collusion in the monumental invasion of privacy and violation of rights with the NSA is being exposed to the world at large.

[Greenday]

All because they're embarrassed at the fact that their collusion in the monumental invasion of privacy and violation of rights with the NSA is being exposed to the world at large.

If you knew that a future nuclear explosion to be caused by terrorists could be stopped, but only by listening in on phone calls, which would you prefer to stop? The murders of hundreds of thousands, possibly millions or the invasion of privacy on people discussing mundane BS that no one gives a crap about?

[Hyena Dandy]

He purposely associates himself with a person known to be interested in the destabilization of governments.

Glenn Greenwald is not "Known to be interested in the destabilization of governments." People who want to take down the government don't donate endorse political candidates. Glenn Greenwald is a respected columnist, who disagrees with many of the government's actions. If having the opinion that the NSA's spying is going too far is something that can have my boyfriend detained if he comes here, then we've gone past "They're just listening to things no-one cares about," and we're getting into some truly horrific behavior. That's trying to destroy free speech, and don't try to get around it by appealing to safety. If associating with people who have called for, at worst, the destruction of the two-party system, is grounds for detention, that is an attack on free speech.

[Andara Bledin]

If you knew that a future nuclear explosion to be caused by terrorists could be stopped, but only by listening in on phone calls, which would you prefer to stop? The murders of hundreds of thousands, possibly millions or the invasion of privacy on people discussing mundane BS that no one gives a crap about?

There's a thing in the US called due process. You're either a free person in a dangerous world or you're a protected animal on someone else's farm.

I'm not someone's pet to be watched over.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

[Greenday]

There's a thing in the US called due process. You're either a free person in a dangerous world or you're a protected animal on someone else's farm.

I'm not someone's pet to be watched over.

You can say that all you want, but until you live on an island with no other people, it won't be true. Society cannot succeed without some form of government. There are people on this planet who would be happy to kill each and every person who lives in the Western world just for being different. These people need to be stopped and if doing so means actions that hurt nobody, so be it.

[Hyena Dandy]

The discussion of if the NSA was justified is a red herring. This isn't about whether or not the amount that the government is spying on us. It's about the right to criticize that.

What Greenwald has said isn't any worse than what Andara's saying. Would you be okay with detaining Nekojin for being her boyfriend? Would you say that he should have known that before getting involved with her?

When we detain people for associating with someone, not someone who we have any proof is PLANNING something, but someone who has simply OBJECTED to it, then you can no longer talk about "Actions that hurt nobody." That's an action that distinctly does hurt somebody, and an attack on people who speak out does more than just hurt the people attacked, it hurts society as a whole.

[Andara Bledin]

You can say that all you want, but until you live on an island with no other people, it won't be true. Society cannot succeed without some form of government. There are people on this planet who would be happy to kill each and every person who lives in the Western world just for being different. These people need to be stopped and if doing so means actions that hurt nobody, so be it.

Except that these actions do not "hurt nobody."

I won't accept "think of the children national security" as a valid excuse to trample the rights of every single person on the globe.

Not for events that are so anomalous that they can't even catch up to the weather as dangerous events. More US citizens freeze to death every single year than all of those who died in the attacks on 9/11.

[Greenday]

Not for events that are so anomalous that they can't even catch up to the weather as dangerous events. More US citizens freeze to death every single year than all of those who died in the attacks on 9/11.

And quite possibly, this is due to good work by certain agencies such as the NSA. The stories you'll never here, acts of untold horror stopped by unnamed peope.

The discussion of if the NSA was justified is a red herring. This isn't about whether or not the amount that the government is spying on us. It's about the right to criticize that.

What Greenwald has said isn't any worse than what Andara's saying. Would you be okay with detaining Nekojin for being her boyfriend? Would you say that he should have known that before getting involved with her?

When we detain people for associating with someone, not someone who we have any proof is PLANNING something, but someone who has simply OBJECTED to it, then you can no longer talk about "Actions that hurt nobody." That's an action that distinctly does hurt somebody, and an attack on people who speak out does more than just hurt the people attacked, it hurts society as a whole.

Perhaps some people would believe that Greenwald is encouraging dissent that will lead to violence that could in turn lead to the destruction of society as we know it. People believe the news and follow them like sheep as it is regardless of which bias is shown. Fox and it's followers are slammed regularly on this forum. Why? Because people are scared of what Fox's followers might do. How is this any different?

[smileyeagle1021]

Fox and it's followers are slammed regularly on this forum. Why? Because people are scared of what Fox's followers might do. How is this any different?

Oh, oh, oh, I think I know the answer to this question. Is it that we aren't advocating for the arrest and detainment of everyone related to a Fox news anchor?

[Greenday]

Oh, oh, oh, I think I know the answer to this question. Is it that we aren't advocating for the arrest and detainment of everyone related to a Fox news anchor?

There's plenty of people who want Fox news silenced. Why do the means make a difference?

[Hyena Dandy]

Do you just not know what "Freedom of Speech" is or something, because that's the only way I can conceive of that question making sense.