Black Woman Killed For Seeking Help

[Gravekeeper]

Then what's the problem, here?

The problem was crashhelmet's argument that the information was presumed and "ever changing". When only one thing changed and much of the information he called into question was easily verified with 5 minutes on Google.

Also, that this could be self defense somehow.

Did he actually specifically invoke Stand Your Ground? And what circumstances was he saying that in?

He didn't specifically invoke it, least not that the police mentioned in the initial report. I'm sure his lawyer will. But that was the first thing he told the cops. That he got scared and thought she was an "intruder". Save the fact she was outside and he opened the door.

I don't know if this is a tragic accident, a racist covering his ass, a guy being overzealous and paranoid, a person who might legitimately have reason to be afraid, either in or outside this context, someone with a mental illness, if he feels that he was justified or that he overreacted...

I'm hoping it doesn't swing that way. All the signs are there for a shitstorm. 19 year old black girl in a predominantly white neighbour knocks on a door and gets shot in the back of the head with a shotgun.

The problem is the 911 timeline. It doesn't seem like he called 911 at the time and there's some debate was to whether or not he called 911 after the fact. If he failed to call 911 he could have been having an "Oh shit, what do I tell the cops, think think" moment. Though ironically, failing to call 911 would be a crime onto itself.

More details will make this story worse. Its just going to be a matter of by what degree I'm afraid.

[s_stabeler]

Um, I can't really see any circumstance short of mental illness that justifies a shotgun blast to the head merely for knocking on the door...

[Hyena Dandy]

Doesn't mean there aren't circumstances that will change my opinion on the situation, and those are questions I do not yet have answers to.

[mathnerd]

Count me in the "wait to form an opinion" camp. Let's think back to the Travon Martin case. When the story first broke, the media painted Martin as this innocent little kid minding his own business when the big, bad white guy came out of nowhere and shot him. When more details came out, the truth was very different. Now, I'm not saying that Martin deserved to be shot. He didn't, and I think that justice was denied to the Martin family. But what I am saying is that the initial reports and the reality of the situation were two very different things. I'm just not willing to rush to judgement until a more complete picture is presented.

[Panacea]

We have facts. What we're missing is details.

Yes, and there's a detail that is puzzling me. If the teen is dead, how do we know she hit another car and was looking for help? No one was with her.

Can someone direct me to a link where the shooter's statement is published? I can't find one, yet Gravekeeper is quoting it.

It certainly sounds fishy; shooting someone in the back of the head hardly sounds like self defense to me. But I need more information before forming an opinion.

[crashhelmet]

The problem was crashhelmet's argument that the information was presumed and "ever changing". When only one thing changed and much of the information he called into question was easily verified with 5 minutes on Google.

She was shot and killed at approximately 2:30am on Friday night/Saturday morning. Police were called out to the scene at that time. It is unknown if the shooter called or one of the neighbors. Neighbors are quoted as saying that the police told them that they believed she was trying to break in and was shot in self defense.

The Police told her family on Monday morning (Over 48 hours later) that she had been killed elsewhere and her body was dumped on the porch.

They then go back and tell the family that she was in fact killed on that porch.

It changed and then changed again. I bet it will change again since the DA's office rejected the request for a warrant last night and told the cops to investigate more.

The information I called into question has not been verified via Google. It's all speculation. It's Heresay. Nothing has been verified except for where she was killed.

There is no confirmation that she called her family or a friend and said she was in an accident. There is no confirmation anywhere of where her car was found and in what condition it was found in. It's speculation being reported as facts.

Also, that this could be self defense somehow.

Her family has no idea where she was that night or what she was doing.

For all we know, she could've been with someone else trying to break into that house and her accomplice got away.

For all we know, the resident could've been a past victim of robbery and was now paranoid.

For all we know, she could've been having an affair with the shooter and his wife came home so he killed her and claimed she was breaking in to cover his ass.

For all we know, the shooter could be some codgy old racist screaming "Get off my porch you dumb n*gger!!!" and shot her as she was turning away. Not giving her the chance to explain what happened to her or why she was there.

For all we know... Which, honestly, isn't jack shit at this point.

The ONLY fact that we know right now is that she died on that porch from a shotgun blast to the head.

A case that seems so cut and dry, yet the DA's office doesn't think there's enough evidence to press charges.

For all we know, the shooter knows someone at the DA's office and they're covering his ass.

For all we know...

[Aethian]

Being in the same state the news has been iffy on this. But then last night we just had 8 people shot with two killed outside of a gambling house.

[Gravekeeper]

Count me in the "wait to form an opinion" camp. Let's think back to the Travon Martin case. When the story first broke, the media painted Martin as this innocent little kid minding his own business when the big, bad white guy came out of nowhere and shot him. When more details came out, the truth was very different.

I don't think that's the best example. The media completely vilified Trayvon. The victim blaming in that case was ridiculous.

Yes, and there's a detail that is puzzling me. If the teen is dead, how do we know she hit another car and was looking for help? No one was with her.

The police verified this. She was in an accident and left her vehicle. It was found 4 blocks from the scene.

She was shot and killed at approximately 2:30am on Friday night/Saturday morning. Police were called out to the scene at that time. It is unknown if the shooter called or one of the neighbors. Neighbors are quoted as saying that the police told them that they believed she was trying to break in and was shot in self defense.

She was shot and killed at 3:40am. The accident occurred at 1:30am. The police won't speculate as to what occurred in between. Her vehicle was found at the scene of the accident 4 blocks away. The police are saying the shooter said he was acting in self defense but that it was an accidental discharge.

According to police, she was shot point blank in the mouth. Contrary to what the family said about being shot in the back of the head. So there seems to be a second miscommunication.

There is no confirmation that she called her family or a friend and said she was in an accident. There is no confirmation anywhere of where her car was found and in what condition it was found in. It's speculation being reported as facts.

No, its not. Her vehicle was found 4 blocks from the scene. She struck another vehicle and pulled over. Then exited the vehicle. This is what the police told the family and the chief detective verified it again on the news this evening.

Her family has no idea where she was that night or what she was doing.

She does work nearby at the Dearborn Ford plant.

For all we know, she could've been with someone else trying to break into that house and her accomplice got away.

After being in a car accident she decides to rob a place with a mysterious accomplice? Bullshit. We knew enough to rule that out last night.

For all we know, she could've been having an affair with the shooter and his wife came home so he killed her and claimed she was breaking in to cover his ass.

That's pretty wild speculation. =p

[crashhelmet]

The police verified this. She was in an accident and left her vehicle. It was found 4 blocks from the scene.


She was shot and killed at 3:40am. The accident occurred at 1:30am. The police won't speculate as to what occurred in between. Her vehicle was found at the scene of the accident 4 blocks away. The police are saying the shooter said he was acting in self defense but that it was an accidental discharge.

According to police, she was shot point blank in the mouth. Contrary to what the family said about being shot in the back of the head. So there seems to be a second miscommunication.

initial reports listed the time of death as 2:30am. They did not list a time for the accident or that the shooting took place at 3:40am

You, yourself, said:

He shot her. In the back of the head. With a shotgun. While she was standing on his porch. He claimed self defense ( Michigan is a Stand Your ground state ). That is all fact from the police release statements.

So was it statements released from the police or did they change their story?

No, its not. Her vehicle was found 4 blocks from the scene. She struck another vehicle and pulled over. Then exited the vehicle. This is what the police told the family and the chief detective verified it again on the news this evening.

Where did you find this information? I can't find it in any link I've found and your link provided only says it was "in Detroit." It doesn't say what happened, or how far from the residence it was.

Now, if she did strike another driver, why did she have to goto a stranger's house 4 blocks away and seek help? Why not get help from the other car she struck?

Have you looked a the Google maps of that area? Why did she go to that house? Why didn't she goto a nearby business or a phone booth? Surprisingly, they do still exist. Why not flag down another driver?

2 hours and 10 minutes is an awful long time.

She does work nearby at the Dearborn Ford plant.

After being in a car accident she decides to rob a place with a mysterious accomplice? Bullshit. We knew enough to rule that out last night.

That's pretty wild speculation. =p

Yes, I know it's pretty wild speculation, but speculation is all we knew at the point that I wrote it. And just because she works nearby the location, it's speculation to presume she was at work prior to the accident.

[mathnerd]

I don't think that's the best example. The media completely vilified Trayvon. The victim blaming in that case was ridiculous.

Actually, it's the perfect example for the point I was making. In the immediate aftermath of his death, he was a media darling. Even Obama got into the act in portraying Martin as an innocent young boy. Don't you recall the "If I had a son" line? The fact that the picture splashed across the news was one that was several years old and pre-adolescent? As the investigation wore on, it became apparent that the situation was not cut and dry. There was more to the story. I don't want to side track this discussion, but the point remains that the details that were not initially released became tremendously important, which is why I refuse to form an opinion based on the sketchy details that are currently available.

[Gravekeeper]

Where did you find this information? I can't find it in any link I've found and your link provided only says it was "in Detroit." It doesn't say what happened, or how far from the residence it was.

Was something I saw last night. Not sure if this is the same article but here.

McBride’s family said they were told the house was about four blocks away from where the accident occurred. Spinks said McBride had been driving her 2001 white Ford Taurus when she struck another car, parked and walked to find help.

Now, the walk to find help part is the family's opinion of course. Though there doesn't seem to be any other plausible reason for her to leave the vehicle and knock on doors. Especially given that she supposedly had a dead cellphone.

Her cellphone being dead I would assume would be fairly evident upon the family receiving her personal effects from the coroner.

So was it statements released from the police or did they change their story?

He claimed self defense, but the police have since released more info saying that while the shooter claimed to be acting in self defense, it was an accidental discharge. He did not mean to shoot her. ( Point blank in the mouth with a 12 gauge >.> )

That part does worry me though. I'm hoping the body location and shot location are just poor communication within the police department and with the family. Not that the police are fucking things up.

Now, if she did strike another driver, why did she have to goto a stranger's house 4 blocks away and seek help? Why not get help from the other car she struck?

She may have struck a parked vehicle or it may have been a hit and run. Otherwise there would be another witness/accident report. Unless the cops are sitting on that information too.

Have you looked a the Google maps of that area? Why did she go to that house? Why didn't she goto a nearby business or a phone booth? Surprisingly, they do still exist. Why not flag down another driver?

I have looked at the map of the area and the location specifically. Its heavily wooded along Outer Drive, the businesses are small and sparse. None of them would be open at that time of night. They're mainly small autobody shops and what not.

I do not believe you that payphone still exist though =p

2 hours and 10 minutes is an awful long time.

Yes, it is. Although if the accident occurred on Outer Drive a huge stretch of that is empty lot and woods. Or maybe she did futilely wander looking for a payphone. Also, as Aethian pointed out, many houses in that area are vacant. The businesses don't look much better off.

Its possible the initial location the police said the body was "Dumped" was actually the location of the accident and they fucked up their info.

And just because she works nearby the location, it's speculation to presume she was at work prior to the accident.

Outer Drive and Warren Ave are both major roads that move through that neighbourhood. It would be more suspicious if she was NOT on either road while in that neighbourhood. As that would indicate she had a destination there and wasn't just driving through.

The shooting occurred in the 16000 block of Outer Drive. The police initially said the body was "dumped" at Outer Drive and Warren. But that's a large intersection. It would make more sense if the accident was around Outer Drive and Warren, and she walked to the 16000 block of Outer Drive. Directly around that intersection is industrial lots, woods and decrepit little businesses. You would have to walk a couple blocks to find a house if you were moving along Outer Drive and its still a sparse neighbourhood.

But yes, 2 hours is a long time. Its hard to fill in that one without the full autopsy report to see if she had injuries from the accident. Whether or not she had been unconscious for a time or if she had suffered a head injury and was disoriented. In which case the home owner might have been in "Scary black person acting weird" territory.

Unfortunately that would be exactly like that previous case a few weeks back where a black person was shot under similar circumstances.

[Gravekeeper]

Actually, it's the perfect example for the point I was making. In the immediate aftermath of his death, he was a media darling. Even Obama got into the act in portraying Martin as an innocent young boy. Don't you recall the "If I had a son" line? The fact that the picture splashed across the news was one that was several years old and pre-adolescent? As the investigation wore on, it became apparent that the situation was not cut and dry. There was more to the story.

No, there really wasn't. A white supremacist hacked his email, facebook etc and took a few select things to smear him with. So the right wingers could create this image of him as a thug. They of course didn't mention the emails about studying for SATs, scholarships, etc or his volunteer work, him wanting to be an aviation engineer, etc. Or that he once saved his father's life in a house fire. -.-

The judge in the case ruled all content from his social media accounts, etc inadmissible by the defense because of it.

And for the record Obama did not rescind his statement about Trayon, in fact he reinforced and went step further after the trial .

[mathnerd]

And none of that is what I was referring to. I was referring to the actual sequence of events, as testified to by numerous witnesses. Martin was not simply walking home minding his own business when he was shot out of nowhere, as the media initially reported. He played a role. He did not deserve to die and Zimmerman did not deserve to go unpunished, but the facts remain that the initial reports were very far from the truth as established in the court records. He was not a sweet innocent boy as established by his school records. I honestly believe that the rush to pain him as an angel in the beginning is exactly why his killer was acquitted. If he was painted as he was: a typical inner city kid who was dealing with a lot of crap and probably didn't make the wisest choices in a confrontation, then I think his own actions could have been more easily justified. But, like I said earlier, that's not the point of this discussion. The point I have been trying to make is that early information is sketchy at best and it is wise to withhold judgement until a better picture of the actual events emerge.

And, before anybody accuses me of bias, let it be known that I'm actually biased towards Mr. Martin. He is one of "my" kids: the kids I spent so much of my life teaching and advocating for. I taught in one of the worst neighborhoods in Miami. Google the Overtown neighborhood if you'd like. That's where I taught. I'd put myself between any of those kids and a bullet coming their way given half a chance. Nothing makes me angrier than the rampant maltreatment of the kids in these neighborhoods. I ache to be back in the classroom with them, but for now I can't. One day I will be.

[Gravekeeper]

And none of that is what I was referring to. I was referring to the actual sequence of events, as testified to by numerous witnesses. Martin was not simply walking home minding his own business when he was shot out of nowhere, as the media initially reported.

Thats not how it was initially reported. It was initially reported as an altercation with a claim of self defense from the get go. In fact it was 10 days before the news even broke in the national media. But it was always reported as an altercation. It was reported as an altercation before George Zimmermans name was even released as the suspect by the police.

He was not a sweet innocent boy as established by his school records.

His school records did not establish him as a sweet innocent boy. They established him as typical inner city teenager having trouble adjusting to his new school.

If he was painted as he was: a typical inner city kid who was dealing with a lot of crap and probably didn't make the wisest choices in a confrontation, then I think his own actions could have been more easily justified.

And what exactly would the wisest choice in that situation be.

[Titi]

mathnerd, since you brought Travon into this, why were NEITHER family informed in a timely matter? With Travon his family found out on the news after they went to the police to report him missing only to be told that he must have run away. This lady was killed on Friday and the family was not informed until Monday?