Black Woman Killed For Seeking Help

[Gravekeeper]

I don't even know what to say here.

She was in a car accident and knocked on the door of a nearby home to ask for help. The home owner shot her in the head with a shotgun. In the *back* of the head at that because she had turned to leave.

Thus far the shooter initially claimed self defense saying she was trying to break in.

( Missed an R in the title. )

[crashhelmet]

The issue I'm having with this is that the bulk of the information is presumed and seemingly ever changing.

It was originally reported that her body was dumped there, and now they're saying she was shot while seeking help for an accident that has yet to be confirmed by any source. There's nothing I can find that says what or who she crashed her car into.

[Gravekeeper]

The issue I'm having with this is that the bulk of the information is presumed and seemingly ever changing.

Um...no, no it isn't. What are you even talking about?

It was originally reported that her body was dumped there, and now they're saying she was shot while seeking help for an accident that has yet to be confirmed by any source. There's nothing I can find that says what or who she crashed her car into.

No, the police originally said the victim was left on the porch after her death. Because they had not yet determined WHERE she had been shot. Once they determined she had been shot on the porch, they revised that to saying she was shot on the porch.

The information was not "ever changing" it was simply updated as the investigation continued.

I also don't see what bearing the details of her car accident have on the fact she was shot in the back of the head on the front porch by a homeowner after knocking on his door. Who immediately claimed self defense.

He shot her. In the back of the head. With a shotgun. While she was standing on his porch. He claimed self defense ( Michigan is a Stand Your ground state ). That is all fact from the police release statements.

[crashhelmet]

Um...no, no it isn't. What are you even talking about?

No, the police originally said the victim was left on the porch after her death. Because they had not yet determined WHERE she had been shot. Once they determined she had been shot on the porch, they revised that to saying she was shot on the porch.

The information was not "ever changing" it was simply updated as the investigation continued.

Was the crime scene so clean that couldn't tell she had been shot right there on that spot? No blood spatter? No brain matter or skull fragments? Why did it go from being the location the body was dumped to being the location she was killed?

I also don't see what bearing the details of her car accident have on the fact she was shot in the back of the head on the front porch by a homeowner after knocking on his door. Who immediately claimed self defense.

According to her family, she got into a car accident and was seeking help at that residence because the battery in her phone was dead. Currently, there are no reports that she called her family and told them what happened before her battery died. This is all assumed. In fact, her family had no idea where she was going Friday night. They didn't know anything about her fate until Monday morning.

At this point, there has been no confirmation from the police or anyone else that her white Ford Taurus was in an accident. The only references are from assumptive statements from her family.

But her family's assumed story is the story being published and told.

He shot her. In the back of the head. With a shotgun. While she was standing on his porch. He claimed self defense ( Michigan is a Stand Your ground state ). That is all fact from the police release statements.

I'm not ignoring the fact she was shot in the back of the head., but it could've very well been self-defense. Was she running away? Did she turn around right before the shot was fired?

We don't know everything yet.

Why was she there? Why was she alone? Was she alone?? Did she know the shooter? Was she really in a car accident? Was she so intoxicated that the shooter thought she was a legitimate threat?

The police have told the DA's office to press charges, but they haven't said why. They haven't even announced the shooter's name or why they think charges need to be filed.

Until the report is formally released, I doubt we'll know the answers to these questions.

[Hyena Dandy]

I can actually agree with Crash. Waiting a couple days to see what the official report says happened won't hurt.

[Gravekeeper]

Was the crime scene so clean that couldn't tell she had been shot right there on that spot? No blood spatter? No brain matter or skull fragments? Why did it go from being the location the body was dumped to being the location she was killed?

Because forensics? Regardless of what the scene looks like they always investigate how the body came to be where it was. There could have been conflicting statements from the homeowner that shot her before he admitted the full truth. It could simply be that they needed to notify the next of kin asap and did not have the forensics done yet. There could have been a mis-communication between the officers on the scene and the officers sent to notify the family.

According to her family, she got into a car accident and was seeking help at that residence because the battery in her phone was dead. Currently, there are no reports that she called her family and told them what happened before her battery died. This is all assumed. In fact, her family had no idea where she was going Friday night. They didn't know anything about her fate until Monday morning.

So what? If that's seriously your problem with this, then fine. She struck another car, pulled over, and then walked to find help. Her vehicle was 4 blocks from the house she was shot at. Know who told the family that?

The police.

Do you seriously think this is a matter of "My niece got her head blown off, I better make shit up to cover for her?".

But her family's assumed story is the story being published and told.

The news went to talk to the family and *gasp* aired what the family said? The family even said "probably" and "believes".

I'm not ignoring the fact she was shot in the back of the head., but it could've very well been self-defense. Was she running away? Did she turn around right before the shot was fired?

This is a Stand Your Ground state and the cops are seeking charges. Even the cops said she was shot while standing on the porch.

We don't know everything yet.

Why was she there? Why was she alone? Was she alone?? Did she know the shooter? Was she really in a car accident? Was she so intoxicated that the shooter thought she was a legitimate threat?

Are you serious? A 19 year old girl was shot in the back of the head with a shotgun while standing on the porch. What possible scenario justifies that?

Maybe she was driving home? Why does she need a reason to be alone? The shooter said he thought she was an intruder and shot her in self defense. He didn't say oh shit, my friend dropped by and I shot her in the back of the head by accident. Even if they did know each other, he shot a 19 year old girl in the back of the head with a shotgun and said it was self defense.

If he thought she was somehow a "legitimate threat", why did he open the door instead of calling 911? Then shoot her in the BACK of the head at close range?

[Aethian]

One if the reasons the car was so far from the house is in that area of the state, whole blocks if houses are vacant.

[Gravekeeper]

I can actually agree with Crash. Waiting a couple days to see what the official report says happened won't hurt.

We know what happened. We know what the shooter said happened. We don't know why it happened. But there's no possible "why" that justifies shooting her unless the cops suddenly come out and say she was packing a glock and attempting a home invasion.

But seeing as the cops are seeking charges, that seems pretty damn unlikely.

One if the reasons the car was so far from the house is in that area of the state, whole blocks if houses are vacant.

Its also half business and half residential apparently.

[Hyena Dandy]

But seeing as the cops are seeking charges, that seems pretty damn unlikely.

Indeed it does, but I don't want to comment on anything until all the facts are in, and this is too soon for that.

[Gravekeeper]

Indeed it does, but I don't want to comment on anything until all the facts are in, and this is too soon for that.

We have facts. What we're missing is details.

[Hyena Dandy]

Gravekeeper, are you intentionally nitpicking my phrasing or something? That's really petty.

Details are part of facts.

[Gravekeeper]

Gravekeeper, are you intentionally nitpicking my phrasing or something? That's really petty.

Details are part of facts.

No, I'm not nitpicking your phrasing. You just made my point. We have facts, but we don't have all the details. Which is what you're asking for. Also, for the record, while details can be part of facts, not all details are facts. "Detail" does not imply a truth.

We have the crime and the stated motive. But you guys are arguing about the circumstance. However, the circumstance will not change the fact of the crime.

[Hyena Dandy]

I'm not ARGUING about anything! I'm not trying to prove a point!

I want to wait before I form an opinion. For one, it says self-defense gone wrong, which could mean "Black people on my property is an attack on me" and could mean "I always answer the door to mysterious people at night with a gun, and my finger slipped." Those would both be bad, and both be criminal, but I would have a different opinion about what happened and how it should be dealt with. Hence my not wanting to form an opinion yet.

Edit: He also says he thought someone was trying to break in. I don't know if that's a reasonable belief or not, which will also change my view on it. I don't know if he saw what he was shooting. I do not know everything that happened, and am waiting for an official report to form an opinion.

[Gravekeeper]

I'm not ARGUING about anything! I'm not trying to prove a point!

I didn't say you were? I feel like we're both talking to a different person or you're reading a different tone of voice than I'm typing in or something. If you thought I was harping on you or upset or something I apologize.

I was just trying to explain that we know what happened, even if we don't know all of the details as to why. Which is the same thing you're saying, actually.

Those would both be bad, and both be criminal, but I would have a different opinion about what happened and how it should be dealt with. Hence my not wanting to form an opinion yet.

And that's fine, I wasn't saying anything about WHAT should be done about this. What I'm saying is that something tragic and unjustified happened. But whether it happened out of malice or stupidity or whatever doesn't change the fact something tragic happened that should not have.

He also says he thought someone was trying to break in. I don't know if that's a reasonable belief or not, which will also change my view on it. I don't know if he saw what he was shooting. I do not know everything that happened, and am waiting for an official report to form an opinion.

Seeing as she was on the porch I can't imagine she was doing anything more than knocking on his door. If she was freaking out over being in a car accident and trying to find a house someone lived in, in that neighbourhood. Then maybe she was banging on the door. But that still doesn't justify more than a call to the cops.

However, this is a Stand Your Ground state and he immediately stated the magic criteria for Stand Your Ground. IE. He immediately told police he felt scared.

It doesn't appear he called the cops before shooting her, and it even seems to be a matter of debate if he even called 911 after shooting her or just left her on the porch. ><

[Hyena Dandy]

And that's fine, I wasn't saying anything about WHAT should be done about this. What I'm saying is that something tragic and unjustified happened. But whether it happened out of malice or stupidity or whatever doesn't change the fact something tragic happened that should not have.

Then what's the problem, here? Someone getting shot is always tragic. But what's the issue with saying that I don't want to have a comment on it until everything comes out? I figured that "This is a bad thing" was an assumed comment, but "This is a bad thing" isn't really something worth saying on a debate forum. It's not really a position that can be disputed, so why should I comment until I can actually have a position beyond "Person shot, is bad."

However, this is a Stand Your Ground state and he immediately stated the magic criteria for Stand Your Ground. IE. He immediately told police he felt scared.

Did he actually specifically invoke Stand Your Ground? And what circumstances was he saying that in?

I mean, honestly, if I shot someone because I was scared, I would probably tell the police the same thing. That makes a difference, and not just if I can claim self defense under stand your ground. It also is the difference between homicide and manslaughter.

If the police questioned him, there's nothing wrong with him saying that he was scared, so he shot her. If that's the truth, I would certainly hope that he said it. I don't know if this is a tragic accident, a racist covering his ass, a guy being overzealous and paranoid, a person who might legitimately have reason to be afraid, either in or outside this context, someone with a mental illness, if he feels that he was justified or that he overreacted...

Without the 'details' I can form no meaningful opinion beyond "Someone is dead. And that's bad."