Children cage fighting...

[fireheart17]

http://www.news.com.au/world/childre...-1226759637225

(I was going to post a link from another website, but due to the stupid restrictions they placed on said website (namely that you can only access 5 articles a day before you have to pay -.-), I can't. The other website had the most comments, hence my posting.)

So children as young as FIVE (the other article says 7) are being trained to fight...MMA style. Now while I don't have a problem with kids learning martial arts, most martial acts actually teach discipline, respect and patience. MMA on the other hand? Not so much.

I do believe that kids are also provided with boundaries in most typical martial arts classes (that is, no contact, kids are taught to pull their punches etc.) and it's generally emphasised that you don't start fights with it. Very few martial arts are full-contact or if they are full-contact, it's at the higher grades and with PLENTY of training and safety trainings.

I'm VERY glad this hasn't taken hold in Australia (two states ban cage matches and one of those states also currently bans people under 18 from competing in MMA matches)

[Pixilated]

I saw that article and my jaw hit the floor. If these braindead parents think this is such a good idea, why aren't they in the cages beating the crap out of each other?

[crashhelmet]

I've been training in martial arts since I was 6 years old. I teach martial arts now.

Kids are taught to pull their strikes in training, but so are adults. It's to teach them control and promote safety. When it comes to sparring, we will let the young kids try and beat the crap out of each other. They're in full protective gear and if they manage to hit each other at all, their strikes are not hard enough to do any kind of harm.

And no, we would never pair up 2 kids that mismatched in size or weight.

With that said...

I, personally, don't like the idea of teaching advanced grappling techniques to anyone pre-adolescent. Yes, I'll teach them how to get in and out of a mount, a guard, or keep ground control. But I will not teach them any kind of submission hold. No arm bars, knee locks, or choke holds. The slightest bit of an adrenaline rush or stubbornness can result in broken bones or unconsciousness. If not worse.

As someone that fought competitively for about 20 years, I know first hand the mentality needed for these fights. Add in the mentality of over competitive parents and this becomes a breeding ground for bullies and goons.

Where schoolyard fights used to be fist-flailing brawls, this has the potential for creating decimating ass whoopings.

I hope these kids have instructors that keep them level headed and grounded. I hope they have parents that don't let them become bullies and/or goons.

[s_stabeler]

Unless I'm mistaken, it also doesn't take much for some martial arts moves to turn into something that can kill, either. (chokeholds come to mind- considering most rely on obstructing the airway...)

[fireheart17]

Unless I'm mistaken, it also doesn't take much for some martial arts moves to turn into something that can kill, either. (chokeholds come to mind- considering most rely on obstructing the airway...)

Generally speaking, a GOOD academy would teach kids how to control any grappling moves (judo comes to mind).

[s_stabeler]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure a good academy wouldn't be teaching 5 year olds...

[Gravekeeper]

Yeah, the picture with the choke hold is the real WTF for me in this article. Seeing as that's a blood choke where you're cutting off the arteries to the brain in the neck. It's exceedingly dangerous. Once its in place it can put you out in a matter of seconds. Then its a short trip to brain damage and death after that if the choke isn't immediately released.

Having a couple of 7 year olds trying to pull it on each other is fucking insane. Even among people that should really be old enough to know better you still see accidental deaths pop up in the news once and a while. After some moron tries an mma or wrestling blood choke move he saw on TV on a buddy.

[crashhelmet]

Generally speaking, a GOOD academy would teach kids how to control any grappling moves (judo comes to mind).

The problem is that in the Dojo, you're in a controlled environment. More often than not, techniques and drills are taken at a slower pace to focus on control and safety. Outside of the Dojo is another story.

When you actually fight, your adrenaline spikes, your focus slips, and you lose some, if not most, of your self-control. Not to mention, you're not concerned with pulling strikes. You're not cautious about holding that armbar just enough to apply pressure. Your thought process is to pull it, bend it, or squeeze it until they tap. For a lot of beginning fighters, they pull too hard and break it before their opponent can tap.

The more experience you get, the better you get at controlling all of that. You get better at controlling where your strikes go. You get better at how much pressure you apply in that submission hold.

On the street/school yard with no ring/cage and no refs, it's open game. That self control is replaced with fear, pride, and ego.

[crashhelmet]

Yeah, the picture with the choke hold is the real WTF for me in this article. Seeing as that's a blood choke where you're cutting off the arteries to the brain in the neck. It's exceedingly dangerous. Once its in place it can put you out in a matter of seconds. Then its a short trip to brain damage and death after that if the choke isn't immediately released.

Having a couple of 7 year olds trying to pull it on each other is fucking insane. Even among people that should really be old enough to know better you still see accidental deaths pop up in the news once and a while. After some moron tries an mma or wrestling blood choke move he saw on TV on a buddy.

Those pics in the article scared me too. The other thing to worry about is the effects of concussions on kids that young.

[fireheart17]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure a good academy wouldn't be teaching 5 year olds...

I was referring to traditional martial arts academies, not MMA.

I was thinking of judo, aikido etc.

[crashhelmet]

I was referring to traditional martial arts academies, not MMA.

I was thinking of judo, aikido etc.

Not to get ranty, but MMA isn't a style. MMA is an abbreviation of Mixed Martial Arts. It's called that because it isn't always the same style fighting the same style. Hence the word Mixed.

But anyway...

Most of your "MMA Gyms" teach Brasilian Jiu Jitsu for grappling or "ground" fighting and Muay Thai Kickboxing for "stand up" fighting. Some teach regular "Western" Boxing.

So they technically are "traditional" martial arts academies.

[Panacea]

I hope these kids have instructors that keep them level headed and grounded. I hope they have parents that don't let them become bullies and/or goons.

Odds are, that's what the parents want. You have to be a goon to win that kind of fighting. There are very few rules other than win at all costs.

We had some of these MMA types show up at my school's open tournament last year. Their belt levels were somewhat arbitrary; pretty much every one of them was a ringer. They were there for fighting experience; they didn't participate in any of the other events (poomse, board breaking, demo team competition). Their style in the ring was full on aggressive, and they got a lot of warnings for rules infractions: illegal kicks and pushes mostly.

Unless I'm mistaken, it also doesn't take much for some martial arts moves to turn into something that can kill, either. (chokeholds come to mind- considering most rely on obstructing the airway...)

It doesn't take much to kill with a kick or hand strike, either. A good hand strike or kick to the throat, and it's all over. A friend of mine got his jaw broken . . . for the second time . . . in a tournament last January. The guy he was fighting is known for his lack of control; he kicks full on even to the head.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure a good academy wouldn't be teaching 5 year olds...

My TKD school starts kids out as young as age 4. Four to six year olds are in the "Little Tigers" program; when they finish the program they can immediately test for yellow belt and continue the regular curriculum to black belt. I've seen kids as young as 3 at other schools.

At my school, you don't start contact sparring until you are a green belt. You don't spar at tournament unless you attend sparring class regularly. It's full gear: chest guard, head gear, forearms, and shin guards. Food guards. Cups for the boys are mandatory, optional for girls.

The real little ones are fun to watch at tournament; they have great intensity but they usually can't hit the broad side of a barn. It's not until they get older and get some skill that things get really interesting.

What they're doing with MMA, however, is not safe. It's not about control. MMA is about dominating your opponent. Then destroying him.

That's not what traditional martial arts are about. They're not for kids.

I do know one guy at my school who started when I did; he tests for black best in a couple of weeks (I alas, am laid up with a broken foot and have to wait to April). He wants to do MMA. He also does wrestling in high school. He could do well at it, but he's learned martial arts the right way and understands what he's getting into with MMA. There's no way a seven year old understands what MMA is about.

I'm glad Australia is making it illegal. I don't know what the laws are in the US, but I don't like the idea at all.

[Gravekeeper]

What they're doing with MMA, however, is not safe. It's not about control. MMA is about dominating your opponent. Then destroying him.

That's not what traditional martial arts are about. They're not for kids.

^ This. Teaching this shit to kids is horrible. All you're teaching them is violent aggression and how best to inflict pain and damage. Without the mental aspect of focus and control that comes with a traditional martial art.

I find teaching Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to kids rather dubious to begin with. As its not a traditional martial art with a mental aspect. Its a competition focused combat and self defense style.

I remember a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu dojo opening in town when I was in high school. The only kids that went too it and stuck with it were the ones that were already aggressive bullies and assholes. Then all they did was turn it around and use it in schoolyard fights.

Whereas, when I took karate as a kid rule #1 the moment you came in the door was you weren't learning this to beat the shit out of people better.

[fireheart17]

^ This. Teaching this shit to kids is horrible. All you're teaching them is violent aggression and how best to inflict pain and damage. Without the mental aspect of focus and control that comes with a traditional martial art.

Not to mention that most martial arts emphasise that you only use it in SELF-DEFENCE. You NEVER use it to start fights unless you're in a controlled environment (ie sparring in karate)

I find teaching Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to kids rather dubious to begin with. As its not a traditional martial art with a mental aspect. Its a competition focused combat and self defense style.

Thank you for summing up my definition of "traditional martial art" a little bit better than most.