Man Shoots Lost Alzheimer's Patient Thinking He's A "Prowler"

[Greenday]

When did it become acceptable for the death sentence via vigilante for petty theft?

Rapscallion

Since when do we have to just stand there and watch people rob us blind?

[siead_lietrathua]

i'm sorry, but he could have just has easily "protected his property" by staying INSIDE, and only dealing with the threat once it is INSIDE.
as long as there is a nice set of locked doors and windows blocking you from a potential attacker then they are not an immediate threat. a robber is not able to "rob you blind" locked outside your house.

it's just illogical to me to say that, to protect the crap inside my house, i have to leave my house and put myself in danger. you are safer defending your home INSIDE your home, where you know the layout and best places to defend.

[Rapscallion]

Since when do we have to just stand there and watch people rob us blind?

You seem unable to come up with a proportionate level of response to the threat involved.

Rapscallion

[s_stabeler]

Since when do we have to just stand there and watch people rob us blind?

Amazingly enough, there are non-lethal ways of getting rid of a burglar. Also, since when did it become acceptable to shoot at something that was a theoretical threat, rather than an actual one?

[HYHYBT]

Going outside when you think there's someone trying to break into your house when you don't have enough light to see the person is just fucking stupid.

Not necessarily. It's not what was happening in this instance, but if someone were trying to break in at my front door, I'd go out the back. They'll get in long before police could arrive, and I'd rather not be there.

[Greenday]

Amazingly enough, there are non-lethal ways of getting rid of a burglar. Also, since when did it become acceptable to shoot at something that was a theoretical threat, rather than an actual one?

Define "actual threat". Because someone snooping behind my house in my backyard is an actual threat to me.

Where is all the blame on the family who let him roam around the streets at night? If you can't adequately care for someone with an illness, it is reckless and irresponsible to not get help.

Where is the blame on the cop? A guy clearly dressed inappropriately for the weather who seems lost and confused is wandering around and they don't think to actually help him, just let him continue to wander around?

There are people to blame for this incident, but it's not the guy protecting his family and his home.

[s_stabeler]

actual threat I would define as a threat to someone's person. So no, for an ordinary unarmed burglar, feel free to bring the gun, but don't use it. If the burglar is armed, then it is a different story.

[Andara Bledin]

Define "actual threat". Because someone snooping behind my house in my backyard is an actual threat to me.

Let me know where you live, because I want to never be anywhere near your house.

I'm normally on the side of gun rights; but I'm not on the side of assholes who have to go on the offensive with little to no provocation just to justify their ownership of a gun and/or prove their manliness.

[BlaqueKatt]

Define "actual threat". Because someone snooping behind my house in my backyard is an actual threat to me.

and New jersey law says "have fun with that"

Deadly force is justifiable only if the actor believes it to be necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily injury.(and the jury decides reasonable belief)

There is a duty to retreat first.

there is never a justification to use deadly force in defense of personal property

[Gravekeeper]

I'm kind of in awe that anyone could vehemently defend the shooter in this scenario. We have a gun owner that did pretty much everything wrong and ended up shooting a confused, half dressed 72 year old man who was suffering from exposure.

There's no way a a half dressed, confused 72 year old that's been outside in subzero temperatures for several hours is moving fast enough to be a threat of any sort.

[Greenday]

Believe me, I'm quite aware that my state has stricter gun laws than the majority of the rest of the world. Concealed carry isn't allowed for ordinary citizens. You pretty much have to be in the middle of dying in order to actually use a gun.

I'm a law abiding citizen. I probably believe in following the law more than anyone else on this board. Even if I think the law is ridiculous, I'm not going to illegally own a gun, illegally carry it, and illegally shoot people.

[Kelmon]

Define "actual threat". Because someone snooping behind my house in my backyard is an actual threat to me.

No. You don't get to decide what a threat to you is and what isn't. "I was afraid"/"I was worried"/"I felt threatened" can't possibly ever be a reason to use deadly force (or violence in general, really). Old, confused man in your backyard? Hardly a threat.

If we go by that way of thinking, it's okay for a white supremacist to randomly shoot black people on the street, as long as he or she felt threatened - and of course that person will conveniently always define the presence of a black person as a threat. Obviously it doesn't work this way.

Believe me, I'm quite aware that my state has stricter gun laws than the majority of the rest of the world. Concealed carry isn't allowed for ordinary citizens.

I think you'll find that wherever you might be in the US, you'll have less strict gun laws than most contries in the world, where "concealed carry" is not so much the issue as owning a gun in the first place.

[Greenday]

I think you'll find that wherever you might be in the US, you'll have less strict gun laws than most contries in the world, where "concealed carry" is not so much the issue as owning a gun in the first place.

You...aren't very familiar with New Jersey, are you? Just purchasing a gun legally in NJ takes forever to get the required permits...supposing you don't get denied like plenty of people do. It requires a fair amount of money. Forget about carrying at all, it's just plain extremely tough to own a gun of any sort unless you are a cop or security.

[Gravekeeper]

You...aren't very familiar with New Jersey, are you? Just purchasing a gun legally in NJ takes forever to get the required permits...supposing you don't get denied like plenty of people do. It requires a fair amount of money. Forget about carrying at all, it's just plain extremely tough to own a gun of any sort unless you are a cop or security.

A-hem. The process of acquiring a hand gun in Canada:

1. Complete and pass the Canadian Firearms Safety Course
( 8 hour course, 1 hour exam, 1 hour practical exam )

2. Complete and pass the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course
( 8 hour course, 1 hour exam, 1 hour practical exam )

3. Apply for a PAL license for restricted firearms. If successful, you will need to re-qualify on all exams every 5 years.

4. Undergo a background check and security screening.

5. 28 day waiting period.

6. Purchase a handgun with a 10 round or less magazine limit.

7. Must be stored unloaded with a trigger lock in a secure cabinet, lock box or safe. Ammunition must be similarly stored in a separate location.

8. It cannot legally be discharged anywhere except at a firing range. It cannot even be legally transported anywhere except to and from a firing range.

9. Furthermore, individual municipalities are permitted to impose additional restrictions within their boundaries. You may not even be permitted to own a handgun in your city or town.

Oh and you cannot open carry a restricted firearm without an additional ATC-2 license. Which is only for hunters, armoured car guards and the like. Hunters are only permitted to open carry when more than 5km away from any towns or cities. Guards are only permitted to open carry on the job, do not own their firearms, and return their firearms to the company at the end of shift.

Concealed carry is completely illegal. The only exception is an ATC-3 license. Which are only issued under extraordinary circumstances. IE there's less than 100 people with on in Canada. There's only a few thousand with an ATC-2.

So yes, Kelmon is completely correct. And that's just Canada where we accept some level of guns because we're surrounded by bears. Take a look at the UK.

[Greenday]

Still sounds easy. None of those requirements sound tough.

NJ, one gun per month.
Handguns must be registered.
Concealed carry isn't allowed for anyone who isn't law enforcement.
No "assault" weapons.
15 round maximum.

Those are the laws. In reality, tons of people get denied because the Democrat-led state refuses to issue permits. They are supposed to let you know within 30 days of applying for a permit what the verdict is, but that's always ignored and it could take half a year just to find out you've been denied. Very restrictive background checks. If you live near a school (Which is just about everywhere), your chances plummet. And what a surprise, most gun crime in NJ is committed with illegally owned guns.