"Rich" kid kills 4, gets probation.

[Greenday]

Well, you hit the nail on the head, realize it or not. UNWANTED ppl...that means we don't want them! I don't want to see them rehabilitated, I don't want to see them "better", I want to see them slap miserable and SUFFERING...that's why it's called PUNISHMENT, not happy happy joy joy self improvement time.

There seems to be a bizarrely large number of bleeding hearts on this board overall, but most real ppl here like the idea that prison is meant to be a miserable experience that destroys you just fine, thanks.

That method has been proven to be broken at best and completely counterproductive to making the world a better/safer place. Punishment does absolutely jack in making things better. Rehabilitation, on the other hands, prevents criminals from re-offending.

And yes, I do agree that there are a lot of bleeding hearts on this board. I'm not one of them as anyone here can tell you. I'm a cold bastard. But the fact that even I'm behind rehabilitation over punishment should tell you something.

[ebonyknight]

That method has been proven to be broken at best and completely counterproductive to making the world a better/safer place. Punishment does absolutely jack in making things better. Rehabilitation, on the other hands, prevents criminals from re-offending.

Jack? It keeps them from re offending, in society. How many criminals would have continued their crimes if they weren't put away? If, after going to this program, he goes out and does the same thing again, what will you have to say then? Granted the system isn't perfect, no system is!

Prisons, do have rehabilitation programs. They have programs for alcohol abuse, education programs (for post high school degrees) and therapy programs. The problem is, most of the prisoners, don't want to participate in them! The ones that do, typically don't re offend and rejoin society. Again, it's personal responsibility, not the system.

After six months of seeing the consequences of his actions, during trial, he STILL isn't remorseful. After hearing the testimony, seeing the pain he has caused on the faces of those he has hurt, even after knowing he has turned one of his passengers into a vegetable, showing no remorse, you think he can be rehabilitated?

BTW, prison sentences serve another purpose beside just getting them away from society. It gives the perpetrator an opportunity for days, months and years, to THINK about what they've done. It's time that is supposed to be used towards self reflection and an inventory of faults they need to correct. It's the reason, before being released on parole, they have to admit, they committed the crime, they were sentenced to. Again, you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. If they choose to not to take advantage of the programs and opportunities to reflect on what they've done, it's a personal fault. Not society's. No one got them into that prison cell, but THEM.

Unfortunately, it appears that (just like he has been living all along), he will not have to take responsibility for what he's done. I doubt while riding his assigned horse, or taking martial arts classes, he is going to be doing any thinking about what he's done. Even if there is therapy, he's going to be thinking about those other things, not concentrating on rehab, with all those distractions. Boring? It sure shouldn't be fun.

And yes, I do agree that there are a lot of bleeding hearts on this board. I'm not one of them as anyone here can tell you.

...........

[Greenday]

You know what prison accomplishes? It teaches criminals how to be better criminals. It helps them become organized and to make connections. Dealing drugs? Let's help you figure out which drugs make a better profit, easier distribution, connections etc. Robbing people? How to better work in teams, handle security systems, etc. On and on.

Meanwhile, rehab is solely focused on helping people get over their addictions or what have you and give them the tools they need to actually handle being in polite society without recommitting.

[wolfie]

Of all the crimes he committed, the (IMNSHO) least serious one on its own would have got a poor kid a harsher sentence than this guy got. What crime is that? One nobody seems to have mentioned yet in this thread - underage drinking. This happened in Texas - imagine what some poor black 16 year old would have got if he'd been caught standing on the corner minding his own business after getting boozed up.

His blood alcohol level was 3 times the legal amount for an adult, *24* times the legal amount for a driver under 21.

Last I heard, Texas was part of the U.S., where the minimum drinking age is 21. How can there be a NONZERO legal limit for a driver under 21, since (driving or not) it's illegal for them to have been drinking in the first place?

[Peppergirl]

There seems to be a bizarrely large number of bleeding hearts on this board overall, but most real ppl here like the idea that prison is meant to be a miserable experience that destroys you just fine, thanks.

Dispense with the personal attacks. Debate your point or move along.

[ebonyknight]

You know what prison accomplishes? It teaches criminals how to be better criminals. It helps them become organized and to make connections. Dealing drugs? Let's help you figure out which drugs make a better profit, easier distribution, connections etc. Robbing people? How to better work in teams, handle security systems, etc. On and on.

As someone else said to me, how is that germane to the case?

Meanwhile, rehab is solely focused on helping people get over their addictions or what have you and give them the tools they need to actually handle being in polite society without recommitting.

And just like prison, they will only get out what they put in. Considering this kid doesn't think he did anything wrong, how will this help?

At least if this kid had his freedom removed, (juvi system or not), he will have time to reflect on what he did, and it will be a stern reminder that his conduct is not to be condoned. All we have now (potentially), he goes on vacation for a year and when he gets back, will have learned nothing. I don't know how he can "focus" on rehab, with all those distractions and when he still hasn't even acknowledged what he did, when faced with evidence and results, months later.

[Andara Bledin]

And just like prison, they will only get out what they put in. Considering this kid doesn't think he did anything wrong, how will this help?

Fun fact which all of you screaming for prison keep ignoring: If he doesn't straighten out, he will be going to prison.

What part of ten years of probation isn't sinking in?

[Jester]

We can sit here and debate what is and what is not an appropriate sentence for the kid in question. And there are points to be made all around in that discussion.

But let's be REALLY clear here. If some poor kid, or me, or you, or someone else without money, had a prior history of incidents involving alcohol, and went out and got hammered and caused injuries and death even remotely like this kid did, that person would be in jail, and would be sentenced to prison. Period.

It's a fact of the US "justice" system that poor people get harsher sentences than rich people, that rich people often get off with probation or less for violations that routinely send poor people away for years, and that non-whites get far harsher sentences than whites for the exact same crimes.

This kid is the poster child of what is wrong with our criminal "justice" system. If you have money and you're white, you are far, far, FAR more likely to walk.

And this is not my opinion, this is factual, backed up by statistics compiled by the very justice system under discussion. They don't advertise this, of course, but these facts are there. Look it up.

My personal opinion? If they had locked this kid up, I'd have no problem with it. But there was almost no chance of that happening because, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, he's white and he's rich.

Welcome to America.

[Andara Bledin]

The issue is that the "defense" for poor people is often an overworked, underinformed public defender who may or may not even know what your charges are before sitting down next to you and sure as hell hasn't had the time to actually come up with any sort of defense or even gone over the case with the defendant.

The money is only slightly relevant: It's merely the agency by which people get defense lawyers who have the ability to actually talk with their clients, and the financial incentive to do their damnedest to get a verdict on their side. Poor people only ever get this when they know someone who is willing to bankroll their defense or their case is high profile enough that some group (ACLU, EFF, etc) gets in on it.

[XCashier]

Honestly if the kid had been that smart, he'd have taken the hit for the family and copped to responsibility. If they're that wealthy he'd come out of jail in better financial position in 10 years than he probably will be 10 years from now.

The kid's not even close to being smart enough to think that far ahead, let alone have the empathy to understand what would happen to his parents. He knows what he wants, he's got money and to hell with everyone else (including those who are the source of his money!). No brains, no sympathy for others, arrogant, leads a charmed life...it's going to take a miracle to redeem this little shit. Jail would've been better, or a really hard rehab clinic (not a freakin' resort spa!).

My heart aches for the families of the victims. I hope they can find peace.

[Hyena Dandy]

But let's be REALLY clear here. If some poor kid, or me, or you, or someone else without money, had a prior history of incidents involving alcohol, and went out and got hammered and caused injuries and death even remotely like this kid did, that person would be in jail, and would be sentenced to prison. Period.

Yes, but whether the kid's sentence in this case is appropriate is actually an incredibly important aspect of the conversation. Yes, there's inequality. But in what way is it injust? Is it bad that the rich people get off more often, or is it bad that the poor people get put in prison more? Should we be pissed off that he DIDN'T go to prison, or should we be pissed off about the people who do?

There's injustice. But it's either benefiting those with money, or punishing those without it. What the right sentence is is as important to the discussion as the fact that he got a lenient one.

[Jester]

I disagree, HD. This particular case is merely an obvious symptom of the larger problem. What is the appropriate sentence here is actually almost moot. It is merely an exemplar of how fucked up the American "justice" system is.

But if you insist on me tackling this case, I would say take a look at other similar cases, where someone was killed due to negligent vehicular homicide where alcohol was involved. If the general sentence in those was five years, give the kid five years. I have no issue with that.

Frankly, I have no issue with any harsh sentence handed down to this spoiled little fuck. If that sounds cynical and jaded to you, it's because it is.

[Andara Bledin]

Jail would've been better, or a really hard rehab clinic (not a freakin' resort spa!).

I just said it three posts before yours: If he doesn't straighten out, he will be going to prison.

This isn't some binary situation where prison is magically not going to happen "because rich and white." All he's gotten is a chance to avoid prison. If he treats this like he has the rest of his life, then off to prison he will go.

[Hyena Dandy]

If the general sentence in those was five years, give the kid five years. I have no issue with that.

An appropriate sentence is more important than a consistent one. If the sentence for shoplifting was death, he shoplifted, but thanks to money and a good lawyer, he was able to get rehab and probation, would we be saying that he should have been killed? Or would we be saying to change the death sentence?

[s_stabeler]

I just said it three posts before yours: If he doesn't straighten out, he will be going to prison.

This isn't some binary situation where prison is magically not going to happen "because rich and white." All he's gotten is a chance to avoid prison. If he treats this like he has the rest of his life, then off to prison he will go.

and a poor person wouldn't get that chance to avoid prison. Again, I have very little problem with the principle of sending someone to rehab instead of prison. I DO have a problem when the option is only offered to the rich. Otherwise, it's one law for the rich, one for the poor. THAT is what pisses people off.