"Rich" kid kills 4, gets probation.

[Andara Bledin]

and a poor person wouldn't get that chance to avoid prison. Again, I have very little problem with the principle of sending someone to rehab instead of prison. I DO have a problem when the option is only offered to the rich. Otherwise, it's one law for the rich, one for the poor. THAT is what pisses people off.

It's not that it's only offered to the rich. You're missing what I said about the mechanism.

If a poor person gets a really good PD who actually does his homework and fights for his client (I know, mostly dreaming here), it's conceivable that he could get the same sort of sentence. But it's only available if the defense fights for it, and most PDs are so overburdened that they don't have the time to even meet their clients, much less craft any sort of defense for them.

My brother got taken in because he was on probation, and he was following it to the letter (hey, look, poor people can get probation, too), but a 'friend' of his left a baggie of something in his glove box, despite knowing that brother was on probation. At his arraignment, the PD showed up late and had to look through his stack of cases and confirm with my brother which one was his. He would have gone to prison over the charge if it weren't for the fact that the now-ex-friend's mother hired a real lawyer to represent him, and he got the entire case dropped due to there no longer being any evidence left after it was tested to confirm what it was. The PD could have argued the same thing, but there was just no way he would have had time to even find that out, much less craft a defense around it.

The issue isn't that rich people get lighter sentences because they can afford a real defense, but that poor people are assigned defense counsel that is so overburdened and so short of time, that they don't actually get any counsel at all.

[Jester]

"...with liberty, and justice, for all....who can afford it."

[Jester]

The previous comment was something I remembered from Jello Biafra's version of the Pledge of Allegiance. And considering the topic here, I thought the entire Pledge might be appropriate. So here it is, in all its glory and cynicism.


I pledge defiance to the flag of the United Snakes of Captivity

And to the Republic for which it stands, I dip it in kerosene, and stick it up the ass of you know who...and light it!

One nation, under God--or else!

One nation, under psychopath Pentagon gangsters, whose idea of democracy is concentration camps for the people who go and use the drugs that the government supplies themselves...

One nation, under Wall Street: If the cops and the President are all criminals, I might as well be one too...

One Nation of tabloid robots who actually believe what they see on tv, but when ask about it say “I don’t care.”

One nation, drowning in its own garbage...

Indivisible from the from the fall of Rome

With liberty and justice for all who can afford it...


This is from 1989, and seems just as appropriate today as it did then. Perhaps even more appropriate in today's world, actually.

[Gravekeeper]

Look, ideally prison would be the halfway point between the two extremes. Half punishment, half rehabilitation. But the US prison system is this horrific makeshift monster of state, federal and private institutions.

That said, rehab is fine if we're talking about someone whose turned to crime due to poverty, substance abuse, alcoholism, whatever. Provided their crimes are the type where the damage can be easily measured in dollars.

But once you start killing people its a different ball game. You're causing irreparable damage to society now. Rehabilitation is a secondary concern after locking your stupid ass up. Furthermore, in this case in particular, rehabilitation requires the patient to meet the rehab half way. There has to be remorse or guilt or empathy to start with. Of which this kid has displayed none. His only concern has been evading the consequences.

He has the body count of a car bomb and it doesn't seem to bother him much. That's more prison psych ward than rehab center.

[Jester]

The question of what an "appropriate" sentence in this would be.

Well, let's take a look at the sentencing guidelines in the state of Texas, where this incident took place.

According to the Time Magazine article about this case,

Texas sentencing guidelines for crimes like this call for fines of up to $10,000 and between 2 and 20 years in the state penitentiary. But instead Couch got 10 years of probation and zero time. If he slips up he could go to jail for 10 years, according to a statement from the Tarrant County District Attorney.

So the state of Texas has deemed that such crimes warrant 2-20 years in the pen. This kid got 0 jail time, but ten years probation, which if he violates could land him in jail for 10 years....half the time that some other people could be sentenced to for the same crime. Anyone wanna bet that there are a few people in Texas prisons doing time for DUI vehicular manslaughter?

But back to appropriate...if Texas feels 2-20 years is the appropriate sentence for such a crime, I can't say I disagree. That being said, this kid did NOT get what Texas feels is an appropriate sentence, now did he?

Do the families of the victims feel he got an appropriate sentence? Let's check in with one of them, shall we?

Eric Boyles, who lost his wife and daughter Holly and Shelby in the crash said it was Couch’s wealth that kept him from a harsher sentence.

“Ultimately today, I felt that money did prevail,” he told the Star-Telegram after the sentencing. “If [he] had been any other youth, I feel like the circumstances would have been different.”

And Mr. Boyles is absolutely correct. Had this been some other Texas teen without the money that this kid's family has, you can bet that they would not have gotten probation, but would, in fact, be handed a sentence of, oh, I dunno, let's say 2-20 years in prison? And when you take into account some of the circumstances around this particular crime, such as multiple fatalities, multiple injuries, and the fact taht this was not the kid's first incident with alcohol, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the sentence would be closer to 20 years than to 2.

Unless, of course, the kid is fortunate enough to come from a wealthy family.

"...with liberty and justice for all."

Riiiiiiiiight.....

[ebonyknight]

Fun fact which all of you screaming for prison keep ignoring: If he doesn't straighten out, he will be going to prison.

What part of ten years of probation isn't sinking in?

I don't want to wait for him to kill more people! What part of that isn't sinking in? Considering he doesn't think he did anything wrong, why are you so optimistic, he will straighten out?

He's already committed enough crimes in this one incident for several people. He wasn't just jaywalking.....

[Greenday]

So the state of Texas has deemed that such crimes warrant 2-20 years in the pen. This kid got 0 jail time, but ten years probation, which if he violates could land him in jail for 10 years....half the time that some other people could be sentenced to for the same crime. Anyone wanna bet that there are a few people in Texas prisons doing time for DUI vehicular manslaughter?

But back to appropriate...if Texas feels 2-20 years is the appropriate sentence for such a crime, I can't say I disagree. That being said, this kid did NOT get what Texas feels is an appropriate sentence, now did he?

Are you using laws meant for adults and trying to apply them to minors? Really?

[Kheldarson]

Are you using laws meant for adults and trying to apply them to minors? Really?

Isn't 16 around the age where most attorneys begin to have discretion as to whether or not a youth is adult enough to understand their crimes fully? And I'd say he understood his crime, since he was, you know, fleeing the scene.

[Greenday]

Isn't 16 around the age where most attorneys begin to have discretion as to whether or not a youth is adult enough to understand their crimes fully? And I'd say he understood his crime, since he was, you know, fleeing the scene.

Sure, if you are committing first degree murder.

[wolfie]

Don't know about Texas, but in some jurisdictions "first degree murder" includes ANY death that results from the commission of a felony. Driving a stolen vehicle, DUI with prior alcohol-related offenses - depending on the jurisdiction, he could technically meet the definition of first degree murder.

[Greenday]

Don't know about Texas, but in some jurisdictions "first degree murder" includes ANY death that results from the commission of a felony. Driving a stolen vehicle, DUI with prior alcohol-related offenses - depending on the jurisdiction, he could technically meet the definition of first degree murder.

I've never heard of anyone in any state being charged with first degree murder for hitting someone while drunk.

Caught drunk driving? Misdemeanor DUI
Kill/hurt someone while driving drunk? Felony DUI

The latter involves jail time while the former doesn't. I don't see how you could ever convict someone of first degree murder if there was no intent to kill someone. I mean, isn't that the definition of first degree murder? Planned out intent to kill someone?

[HYHYBT]

One thing that bothers me is the "no remorse" aspect. Specifically: how does anyone KNOW? Some people don't show certain types of feeling well no matter how strong, and of course *showing* remorse is often just that: a show, a sham, devoid of substance.

[Greenday]

One thing that bothers me is the "no remorse" aspect. Specifically: how does anyone KNOW? Some people don't show certain types of feeling well no matter how strong, and of course *showing* remorse is often just that: a show, a sham, devoid of substance.

For all we know, he could just be medicated to the gills right now and that's why he's not showing emotions. (To clarify, with anti-depressants)

[Andara Bledin]

Don't know about Texas, but in some jurisdictions "first degree murder" includes ANY death that results from the commission of a felony. Driving a stolen vehicle, DUI with prior alcohol-related offenses - depending on the jurisdiction, he could technically meet the definition of first degree murder.

Just a nitpick, but the vehicle wasn't stolen. His dad let him take it. I see dad losing a lot of money and his business over that.

[Gravekeeper]

One thing that bothers me is the "no remorse" aspect. Specifically: how does anyone KNOW? Some people don't show certain types of feeling well no matter how strong, and of course *showing* remorse is often just that: a show, a sham, devoid of substance.

Well, he showed none in court and that's the one place you'd want to show it even if it was a sham. So does he have no remorse or is his head so far up his ass he doesn't think he shouldn't even fake it for court?

The media has dug into that past case as well, turns out she actually wanted rehab there too.

In the previous case of note, she sentenced a black 14 year old to 10 years for killing someone with a punch. The kid punched a 40 year old man, who subsequently banged his head on the curve when he fell over leading to fatal injuries. That kid also showed no remorse.

Turns out in that case the judge likewise tried to push a special rehab center, but no place would take the kid ( and I would assume the parents couldn't afford it ) so she ended up sentencing him to 10 years in prison instead.

In other words, if this kid's parents couldn't afford to enroll him in a special rehab center, she would have shrugged and sent him to prison for 10-20 years instead. What the fuck? The victim's family in the previous case was likewise shocked and enraged at the judge trying to push a cushy out of state rehab center.

Apparently, the Judge doesn't like the rehabilitation programs her own state offers in the juvenile system. So she tries to ship kids to fancy out of state centres ( In the previous case she wanted to send him to a special centre in Arizona ) but when that failed she put him away for 10 years instead.