A persons word is their bond.

[Mytical]

This could go under a few categories to be honest. Grab bag, here, things I hate.. but I feel this is a social issue more then anything.

I will be honest. I've never quite understood the 'finding somebody else after married' thing. I get that people sometimes split because of differences. I get that afterward they have to move on. But while married? That, that I will never ever understand. You make a commitment. A person's word is a bond, and you promise to be faithful. I just can not grasp not keeping your word unless under extreme circumstances..

I am talking about saying "I promise I will pick you up from work" and getting into an accident that causes your vehicle to stop running. Or something similar. Growing up, the two worse things you could be called in my area were a thief or a liar. When you gave your word, that was it. You moved heaven and earth to keep that word.

Now I am by no means a jealous person. If my special other, before we got wed, said 'I want an open marriage' that would be one thing. Though I personally would not look, if I agreed to that, I would not harbor any ill will if they did. Short of that, when you are married you give your word. You should never ever break it. There is no circumstance that would be emergency enough to warrant it. An agreement with your special other is one thing, and I have no issue with that. If there is no agreement, then there should never be a time when a person cheats on the person they married.

My word is my bond. If I tell you I will do something, I WILL do it. Unless it just is not possible to do. I just do not understand people when they say one thing and then do another.

[crashhelmet]

I heard a quote once a long time ago that goes something like "Not everyone who steals is a thief, and not everyone who cheats is a cheater. But thieves will always steal and cheaters will always cheat."

I like to add in the same about liars. Not everyone that lies is a liar, but liars will always lie.

One of my best friends cheated on his now ex-wife a lot. I am in no way trying to justify what he did, I have no respect or tolerance for it at all, but it seemed to follow a trend. Anytime they were having issues and the intimacy dropped out of their marriage, he'd get it from somewhere else. Sometimes he went looking for it, other times it found him.

Some people cheat because they have no sense of commitment, no sense of honor. Others because they're trying to fill a void rather than fix the problem.

Some people lie because they too have no sense of commitment or honor. No sense of respect. Others, little kids especially, do it out of fear.

[violiav]

Speaking as someone who as committed adultery I can say that part came from fear, anger, and loneliness. My marriage was a bad idea to start with, and by that point it had already turned abusive. I was given ultimatums about employment (no matter what I brought in he never considered it enough), he acted jealous over attention I gave our child and our pets, he insulted my appearance (during sex!), when we fought (often) he would never let me leave so I could De-escalate things. He could grab me and just make me stay.
I should have taken my daughter and left. I knew that even as events escalated. I just couldn't wrap my head around leaving. I even had a place to go and people that would back me. I was paralyzed mentally. I even believed at one point that he was allowed to physically accost me, while I was not allowed to retaliate. Every time I tried to tell him that things were wrong he wouldn't believe me.
So when the opportunity presented itself (my daughters friends father, now my longtime boyfriend, though we're not without issues- nothing insurmountable) it was easy to give in and escape. I think subconsciously I wanted something to blow up the marriage, to jar me or him into action, and it did.
Was I wrong for having an affair? Yep. Had the affair not happened could the marriage have been saved? No. I was a hairsbreadth from just leaving. Or something worse may have happened. Is my life better for it? Yes.
So, those are some of the reasons I wear my scarlet letter (one of these days I will go dressed as Hester for Halloween).

[Andara Bledin]

I was "the other woman" once. When I found out, I was pissed.

My own relationships have rarely been exclusive, but I will not knowingly be a party to cheating or lying. Hell, I won't even write about breaking up the relationships of fictional characters, it's that big a deal to me.

[BlaqueKatt]

You make a commitment. A person's word is a bond, and you promise to be faithful. I just can not grasp not keeping your word unless under extreme circumstances..

Because as we all know emotions and emotional connections are 100% under our control at all times.

I'm sure you've read how awful my husband treated me, and that I couldn't afford to leave. Also was the fact that every time I tried to end the marriage(which considering he told me he held zero feelings for me, I should've just shut mine off, and been ok being a non-entity?) He'd either convince me to stay or refuse to sign the papers(no fault state).

By your logic since I was trapped in a loveless marriage, I should've spent the rest of my life like that? How in the hell is that ok, by anyone's logic? It's what was causing my near suicidal depression. Not finding the person I have now, who loves me, would've eventually killed me.

I don't believe in "black and white" morality, as no two situations are ever, or can ever be the same.

[siead_lietrathua]

speaking as a poly person... it's not always breaking a vow of faithfulness.

faithfulness, and by extension fidelity, is about keeping your oaths and performing your duties as agreed upon. whether that includes monogamy is up to the people involved in the marriage. for us, it never did or was. we agreed to non monogamy years before we even considered getting married.if a couple agrees on a non-monogamous marriage, then it is not a breaking of vows if they act on that agreement.

to the cheating part... well it's not unfeasable. the shit economy has alot of people trapped financially where they can't always "escape" a loveless situation.

poly rant!:
i find what bothers people about non-monogamy is less the idea of sex-with-many and more like the idea of LOVE-with-many. but the capacity for people to love multiple people in their own unique, and never 'equal' ways is very natural. people say they love their parents, children, friends and mean it whole-heartedly. yet there is this barrier about romantic love that seems to require that you can only love one person? i call bupkis.

it's perfectly normal for a person to go through a succession of relationships and truly say, and mean!, that they love each person. it's perfectly acceptable for widowers/widows to meet a new partner, and it's commonly called 'second soul mates'. yet if you ask a person like that, "what if you met them both at the same time?" they treat it like only one person could really be your mate, that one is somehow 'better' or 'worthier'.

well screw that . i love both my husband, and my boyfriend. and i'm not stupid enough to say i love them equally. but i love them both deeply, romantically, because of who they are. love isn't a competition, there's no prize for who gets the 'most' or 'right kind' of love.

that's enough ranting, but i'm leaving one of my favorite quotes here.

"If it is accepted that one can have two or more soul-mates during a lifetime, why is it so hard to accept the blessing of having it happen at the same time?" ~Rupert Meyer

[TheHuckster]

Because as we all know emotions and emotional connections are 100% under our control at all times.

I'm sure you've read how awful my husband treated me, and that I couldn't afford to leave. Also was the fact that every time I tried to end the marriage(which considering he told me he held zero feelings for me, I should've just shut mine off, and been ok being a non-entity?) He'd either convince me to stay or refuse to sign the papers(no fault state).

By your logic since I was trapped in a loveless marriage, I should've spent the rest of my life like that? How in the hell is that ok, by anyone's logic? It's what was causing my near suicidal depression. Not finding the person I have now, who loves me, would've eventually killed me.

I don't believe in "black and white" morality, as no two situations are ever, or can ever be the same.

What you describe sounds awfully like the "extreme circumstances" Mytical was talking about.

[HYHYBT]

By your logic since I was trapped in a loveless marriage, I should've spent the rest of my life like that?

As I read it, the title complaint isn't about people who split up, but only about those who cheat, perhaps including those who allow feelings to grow towards someone other than their spouse rather than squashing them.

[Hyena Dandy]

Though I personally would not look, if I agreed to that, I would not harbor any ill will if they did. Short of that, when you are married you give your word. You should never ever break it. There is no circumstance that would be emergency enough to warrant it.

Actually, the thing is, it may not be an emergency, but situations can change. You can love one person, and think monogamy is for you...And then eventually realize it's not. Your relationship shouldn't be trapped on your wedding day.

You don't really get to say "I'm falling for this person... Nope, not gonna fall for them, emotions off." It shouldn't have to be a prior agreement. Now, in general, cheating is bad (except in some circumstances) but there shouldn't be something wrong with wanting to rediscuss things after. You might agree to one thing, then see that's not working out for you. Why should you not even ASK about doing something else? Why are you frozen on your wedding day? The day before, you can talk about how things might go one way or another... But the day after, you're expected to never change anything at all for the rest of your life? It seems very limiting. It makes me wonder why anyone would get married, if they can't come to their partner and TALK about another option. To me, I want my relationship to be an experience of positivity and co-operation, not of obligation to my rule being my bond. To me, the one time that I won't consider that I HAVE to keep a promise is when that promise is essentially requiring me to deny being true to myself. If being true to myself would require saying "Okay, this isn't working out" then I'd have to talk to my partner and see what we can do to to change it.

You say you'd be fine if your husband came to you before your marriage and said he wanted it to be open, but why can't he come to you afterwards, a year or two or three

Cheating's not good* but this reads to me being less about cheating, and more about never changing. A marriage is a long time, and I want to know if I do marry someone that our relationship isn't set in stone with who I am at 30, or 40, expecting me to be the same person at 80 or 90.

*except in unusual circumstances. I also wouldn't consider it cheating if you're in an abusive relationship, if that's the case, my view is that they let their side of the bargain down first, you have no obligation to them there.

[siead_lietrathua]

You say you'd be fine if your husband came to you before your marriage and said he wanted it to be open, but why can't he come to you afterwards, a year or two or three

QFT. communication and renegotiation are required for a relationship to last the long run, even on the arbitrary shit like who does the dishes. let alone the big stuff.

i also want to tag what you quoted from Mytical.
"Though I personally would not look, if I agreed to that, I would not harbor any ill will if they did"

it's not always a matter of looking. sometimes people fall for friends or acquaintances, or even random strangers. not all people that cheat use ashley madison.

[Canarr]

Actually, the thing is, it may not be an emergency, but situations can change. You can love one person, and think monogamy is for you...And then eventually realize it's not. Your relationship shouldn't be trapped on your wedding day.

You don't really get to say "I'm falling for this person... Nope, not gonna fall for them, emotions off." It shouldn't have to be a prior agreement. Now, in general, cheating is bad (except in some circumstances) but there shouldn't be something wrong with wanting to rediscuss things after. You might agree to one thing, then see that's not working out for you. Why should you not even ASK about doing something else? Why are you frozen on your wedding day? The day before, you can talk about how things might go one way or another... But the day after, you're expected to never change anything at all for the rest of your life? It seems very limiting. It makes me wonder why anyone would get married, if they can't come to their partner and TALK about another option. To me, I want my relationship to be an experience of positivity and co-operation, not of obligation to my rule being my bond. To me, the one time that I won't consider that I HAVE to keep a promise is when that promise is essentially requiring me to deny being true to myself. If being true to myself would require saying "Okay, this isn't working out" then I'd have to talk to my partner and see what we can do to to change it.

You say you'd be fine if your husband came to you before your marriage and said he wanted it to be open, but why can't he come to you afterwards, a year or two or three

Personally, I'd say because for most people, monogamy is a pretty important part of a relationship, and not something to be "renegotiated" on the fly. If you announce it beforehand, then the other party knows what they’re getting into.

Not to mention, I know very, very few people for whom the suggestion of sharing their spouse would not be heavily tinted with emotion – from feelings of inadequacy (“Am I not good enough/attractive enough anymore???”) over fear of getting dumped (“If I don’t agree to this, will he/she leave me???”) to the inevitable jealousy.

I mean, we’re talking about a relationship with someone whom you – supposedly – love, not any kind of contract that can be calmly negotiated: “While your sexual services in the past have been quite satisfying, I nonetheless would like to employ a third party vendor in addition to our regular encounters. That won’t be a problem, will it? But don’t worry, you will remain my primary supplier, and have no need to worry about this competition.”

That’s not something I see working out very well.

[Hyena Dandy]

Personally, I'd say because for most people, monogamy is a pretty important part of a relationship, and not something to be "renegotiated" on the fly. If you announce it beforehand, then the other party knows what they’re getting into.

And when is it to be renegotiated? Only before marriage, so they know what they're getting into? So if you get married at 30, you can't possibly CHANGE what you want until you kick it? You're just supposed to freeze your mind in time? It's not like if I change my mind five years later I was lying the whole time. It's just that people grow over the years.

Yes, monogamy IS very important to a lot of people. That's certainly true. That's why it should be discussed. If monogamy is so important to you that you feel that someone just TALKING about it is an attack, then too bad. If you're in a relationship, you do have to talk to the person, not hold "But you said" over their head. It's perfectly fine, of course, if your response is "I'm sorry, I'm really not comfortable with that." If you interpret someone else having emotions of their own as an attack on you, or a violation of your sacred bond, then that's fine. Your emotions are as valid as theirs. But the thing is, they are AS VALID as theirs. Not MORE valid. You should definitely express that, but they should also be able to express what they feel. I did have a boyfriend cheat on me, it pissed me off. It felt like he was violating the trust I had with him. The thing is, had he TALKED to me about it, I would have been totally fine, and even liked the guy. Communication is the core of a good relationship, not "What you said on our wedding day."

What if YOU don't know what you're getting into? What if you feel like this monogamy thing works out, but then after three years, or five years or ten years, you're starting to feel that it doesn't work for you. I'm lucky enough that I realized while relatively young that I definitely couldn't stick with monogamy. Other people might not be so lucky. They might not even realize that there's an OPTION to be non-monagmous.

When I first got with one of my present boyfriends, I was very clear about something. I would be doing cybersex with other people (Long distance relationship) but would only be romantic with him. He was fine with that. Then a year later, turns out that there's someone else I'm interested in romantically. So I ASKED him about it, I said that I felt that had changed, and I'd like Brian to be my boyfriend too, but I wouldn't want to hurt him. And he was okay with that. If he stops being okay with that, I expect him to talk to me about it.

I mean, we’re talking about a relationship with someone whom you – supposedly – love, not any kind of contract that can be calmly negotiated: “While your sexual services in the past have been quite satisfying, I nonetheless would like to employ a third party vendor in addition to our regular encounters. That won’t be a problem, will it? But don’t worry, you will remain my primary supplier, and have no need to worry about this competition.”

Oh, come off it. That's a Strawman argument and you know it. This is the same sort of bullshit as "Why I can't ask permission before doing a particularly sexual thing," like negotiations always have to go a certain way, so slipping your finger in his ass without asking is more 'romantic' than saying "Can I do this to you?" Why does everyone assume negotiating things before hand is done in a strange robotic fashion? How about "Hon, I love you... But I'm starting to feel that this isn't working out. I want to still be with you, but I'd still like to have sex with other people, as well. You're very important to me, that's why I'm asking. I love you, but I don't feel that this is working for me, and I'd like to find a way to be with other people, but not have you hurt."

It IS a relationship. It IS with someone I love. And that's why I say to talk to them about it. Wanting to have sex with, or even be romantically involved with, someone else is not me saying that I don't don't love the first person. So why throw in the "Someone you - Supposedly - Love"? Why can't it just be "Someone that you love?" Simply because you aren't the same person you were when you got married? Why is it so "Supposedly" because you feel sexually you want something else? Or even that romantically, you want someone else as well?

The idea that I'm not supposed to change my thoughts from the day I get married to the day I DIE sounds a lot more contractual than .relational It's not a relationship if I'm kept to the same thing I said five, ten, twenty years ago even if I might have changed who I am and where I am emotionally since then. THAT'S a contract, not a relationship. A relationship is between two equals, who will work together to find a way through life that brings them both the most joy and satisfaction. A contract is binding and doesn't change.

And saying "if you REALLY loved me, you wouldn't WANT [x]" doesn't sound like a fair relationship. That sounds like a way of being controlled. Relationships aren't about being controlled. Even people whose relationships rely on them wearing a collar everywhere and addressing the other person as "Master" is not really about being controlled, it's about two people who have found that the best way to get through life.

The ability to talk about things is what makes a good romantic relationship. Not the ability to use precognition and know exactly what you will want from here until you die.

[siead_lietrathua]

So why throw in the "Someone you - Supposedly - Love"? Why can't it just be "Someone that you love?"

this is truth, and the part i wanted to address.

the idea that people are incapable of loving more than one person romantically is society driven bullshit. the idea that you have to fall out of love with one person to fall into love with another is bullshit!
like.. i can't use any other word for it.

i'm gonna seriously recommend people that think that it's impossible to love multiple partners should visit sites like 'more than two' to learn more about it.

monogamy is fine. poly is fine. it's all how we are wired and if we talk like freakin adults to eachother, and not like spoiled kids that are entitled to control what other human beings (our partners) do with their bodies, hearts and minds, we'll all be better off.

[Signmaker]

There is a big difference between cheating in a long term relationship, and wanting to change the parameters of a long term relationship. Most of it has to do with honesty and knowledge on behalf of the other person.

To put it in simpler moral context, if I give you my word to pick you up after work, that is my bond, and I will do all in my power to fulfill it. Redefining a relationship would be akin to me calling you up and letting you know I was sorry, but I wouldnt be able to pick you up. Cheating is like not calling, and just not showing up. One of them is "hey, it's life, things have to change, but I'm being responsible", the other is "fuck you, I do what I want".

Please note, this does not mean you have to have consent of the other party. You very may still want me to come pick you up, despite what I say, but it wont change the fact that I'm not coming. A partner may not want to consent to changing the relationship...it doesnt mean it cant be changed anyway. In my book, "here are the divorce papers" is very clear language of "things are about to change".

The core of "keeping your word" is accountability for yourself. By letting the other person know of your intentions, and the reasons behind them, you are maintaining accountability.

Also, before promising something like "til death do us part", take the time to make sure the person you're saying it to isnt a raging asshole.

[Mytical]

I took some time to try to craft a response to this, and set the record straight on something. I am somebody who has chronic foot in mouth disease, because I say what I think, and think what I say. So if this offends somebody, I apologize, but it is what I personally believe.

Now somebody asked if they should be forced to stay in a loveless marriage. No. That person broke their word and bond to you, because they swore to Love, Honor, and Cherish. However, I do believe that if you don't have your partners consent that sex with another is wrong. As I said in the OP if you and your partner go into marriage with full knowledge that there will be others involved in the sex life, more power too you. Sex without the other persons knowledge or consent is lying, and yes breaking your word.

Now, I will say that if the situation changes.. and you talk to your special other after being married and BOTH are ok with the changes, again .. more power too you. Nobody is breaking their word in that case.

While you can not control who you have feelings for, you CAN control what happens with that person (lets not get into forced sex please, that is a whole different topic). If my thinking this makes me a bad guy, so be it. That is MY hang up, not anybody elses, and people are free to do whatever they want. I won't judge them, for I am not in that relationship and it is not for me to judge them. I might not like what they are doing, but I realize that this is something I feel, and not everybody does. So yes, I do not think a person should have sex with another person while married without their partner being fully aware and ok with it.