Plastic Bags

[prb]

Okay, I don't use plastic bags. In Toronto, City Council recently passed a by-law eliminating plastic bags, or rather charging $0.05 per bag.

Loblaws now offers in their Toronto stores, a free PC Green Box with a coupon printed from their website. Says Toronto Area, but all the stores are in the amalgamated City of Toronto (1996 amalgamation of a number of cities to form the mega-city, and yet YYZ/Pearson International is still not in the City of Toronto :P).

What do you think of taxing, or banning, plastic grocery bags? I say go for it, with a few exceptions for stores owned by one person or a family with only one location, and oversized bags used for large items.

[Sylvia727]

I disagree with banning them, but I see no harm and great benefit from charging extra for them. In essence, an environment tax. That's what governments are for. A grocery store near my place has had a plastic bag recycling bin outside for at least ten years, well before the "green" craze. I appreciate it muchly since plastic bags can't be recycled in the normal plastic bins. Plastic bags are also an issue in some of the more rural areas around here because when littered, they blow on the wind into the fields and are harvested along with the crops, thus costing the companies the wages of extra employees to pick out all the shreds of them.

[daleduke17]

I disagree with the banning or charging of extra for them. Let the business decide if they want to discontinue the use of them.

Charging an "environment tax" sounds like someone has been listening to a little too much Al Gore.

[McDreidel09]

I don't agree with banning them. However,charging for them should be up to the individual stores.

Plastic bags can be used for more than holding groceries. I know I use them for garbage bags for my bathroom garbage can and for cleaning up the litter box. Several people I know use them for those purposes. Sometimes, they can be a great lunch bag for a few lunches. We also used them in Track to keep our clothes dry in our sports bags when it was raining or for a garbage bag on the bus on the way to and from our games.

Sorry. I'm rambling. I find so many uses for plastic bags.

[Rapscallion]

I did some research and thinking about this when I was in retail. Back then, the number of bags reckoned to be used by shoppers in the UK was about eight billion a year. With a population of about sixty million, I worked that out as being two and a half bags per person of every age group per week (figures may be out - it's been some while since I did this). Seeing the way some people take twenty for twenty items at a supermarket checkout, I'm not surprised that the figure was about that.

That figure, last I heard, surpassed ten billion plastic shopping bags. No idea where I got the figure from - we're talking many moons past.

I try to take a re-usable bag with me - maybe a bag from a prior visit, or one that I keep in the car. I generally try to carry my stuff to the car in my arms (being single means smaller shopping trips).

We tried to encourage people to re-use and bring in carriers from other stores as an environmental issue, and some people did just that.

However, I can honestly say that free plastic bags are a symptom. There's often more plastic inside the bag on the packaging than is used to make it, and shoppers have generally used more oil in getting to the store than was used to make a bag or two.

It's the thin end of the wedge. They're visible, and it's a good way to get people to cut down for the very reason that they can be seen. Does your country want to be dependent on imported oil to make something you're going to throw away five mintues after getting home? People can feel good about something that is causing a genuine problem. Oil's running out? Hey, let's still make a craptonne of disposable bags that we will ... er, dispose of.

Less packaging and unecessary trips in fuel-hungry vehicles will be the next major things, and they should be. So much waste goes into packaging products, and it will be more visible than trips in your car, so I suspect that's first.

Maybe I sound like a green. I tend in that direction, but think of this. Ten billion plastic shopping bags. Think about that. Just how big is that going to be? How much landfill? Remember that this is from just one small island nation with about a sixth of the population of the US.

Ten billion plastic shopping bags.

Wow.

Good reason to trim down usage. I support all measures towards that, and I welcome fees in that direction as a reminder that free isn't always free.

Rapscallion

[TheRoo]

A few months ago, I bought a few cloth bags, and I couldn't be happier with them. They're a lot more durable than paper or plastic, and make carrying groceries so much easier. Plus with a nickel off for each bag on my grocery bill (at least at my normal store), they should pay for themselves around May or so.

[Boozy]

On one hand, it's a good idea to ban and/or charge for plastic bags. It's easy to avoid using them, and they are bad for the environment.

On the other hand, I don't like measures that are passed for the purpose of making people feel better about their carbon footprint without making that much of a difference. There is a risk that we will start becoming complacent. People still drive instead of walk, still buy products with excessive packaging, still buy imports instead of domestic goods, still leave their lights on when they go out, still use clothes dryers instead of clotheslines/drying racks....I could go on and on.

Banning plastic bags are a good start, but I'd hate people to start patting themselves on the back because of this. We have such a long way to go, and this is only a baby-step in the right direction. To make a real difference, we need to make real sacrifices.

[Boozy]

Good reason to trim down usage. I support all measures towards that, and I welcome fees in that direction as a reminder that free isn't always free.

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: We need to make people aware of the real costs of enivronmental degradation, because eventually it's going to cost all of us. "Free isn't always free" is a very good way of putting it.

[BlaqueKatt]

On one hand, it's a good idea to ban and/or charge for plastic bags. It's easy to avoid using them, and they are bad for the environment.

Top ten reasons why banning plastic bags does not make sense-this link goes to a company that sells reusable bags-and if they're against it what does that tell you?

I respectfully disagree-it is merely a "feel good environmentalist" effort akin to "hybrid cars"(they still use gasoline-keeping us Dependant on foreign oil-the Tesla is fully electric-and Tata motors produces a compressed air car)


See this

"It takes more than four times as much energy to manufacture a paper bag as it does to manufacture a plastic bag. "

ENERGY TO PRODUCE BAG ORIGINALLY (BTUs)
Safeway Plastic Bags: 594 BTUs
Safeway Paper Bags: 2511 BTUs

it takes 91% less energy to recycle a pound of plastic than it takes to recycle a pound of paper.

ENERGY TO RECYCLE PACKAGE ONCE (BTUs)
Safeway Plastic Bags: 17 BTUs
Safeway Paper Bags: 1444 BTUs



"In 1999, 14 million trees were cut to produce the 10 billion paper grocery bags used by Americans that year alone"

"Paper sacks generate 70% more air and 50 times more water pollutants than plastic bags.
Source: "Comparison of the Effects on the Environment of Polyethylene and Paper Carrier Bags," Federal Office of the Environment, August 1988 "

[AdminAssistant]

Yes, BlaqueKatt, but paper bags tend to hold much more than plastic bags and can be reused more before they give out.

I'm not for banning plastic bags, but I wouldn't have a problem with charging a pittance for them. I do use them, because I sometimes forget my reusable bags (I need to just start keeping them in my car). But I agree that it's just a tiny baby step - there's much more we need to do.

As for Al Gore, even if you want to discredit all the scientific evidence he puts forth in his documentary, how are any of his suggestions bad ideas? Regardless of global warming, it's a good idea to use less energy, to reduce or eliminate our reliance on foreign oil, to seek out alternative energy sources, and live a more environmentally concious life.

[Boozy]

I thought we were discussing using reusable cloth or hemp bags instead of plastic. I didn't even know you could get paper bags anymore.

[Sylvia727]

Grocery stores here in the Midwest USA still ask "paper or plastic". It's been a while since I've seen anyone with paper bags though.

[katie kaboom]

From what i've seen, most stores these days don't offer paper bags, the customer has to ask for them.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I use a plastic box for my shopping.

The supermarket has plastic bags under the tills now; shoppers have to ask for them. Cue much bitching and moaning from SCs. -.- So glad I work in petrol now.

[AFPheonix]

I think charging for them is a decent idea. If it causes fewer bags to be left to blow about and be a mess, then yay.