MTV Martial Law Warning

[Tanasi]

Civilian National Security Force was the term he used. A force that would as well funded, equiped and trained as well as our current military. Their job would be homeland security similar to a national police force.
Smacks of the Brown Shirts to me.

[Evandril]

Right now, we don't have enough information to judge *shrugs* In theory, it sounds like a good idea, but I'd have to see what they wanted to use them for, and how. I *do* know I'm much better trained/funded/ect, on the whole, than any police force, being in the military...I also know my 'job' is FAR simpler, as well...If we can manage a police force with military level backing...It sounds good on paper

Of course, any national level police force will have it's own share of headaches, to say the least.

[Rapscallion]

Civilian National Security Force was the term he used. A force that would as well funded, equiped and trained as well as our current military. Their job would be homeland security similar to a national police force.

Isn't that pretty much the function and description of the National Guard? Not being from your parts, I have to ask, but from what I've heard it's the sort of idea it was designed for.

Rapscallion

[ExiledV20]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reCpV1YHuYs

I'm only going to say this once and once only: That's the most blatant bullshit scare propaganda I've ever seen. It's fucking guilty of Godwin's and should be treated like the rest of the inane crap that spews out of MTV these days.

I'll do responses and then rant about the REALITY of martial law afterwards.

Haven't got a clue???? Read the "Patriot Act".
Oh don't feel like reading it???? No big deal. Neither did most of our lawmakers that voted for it.

The PATRIOT Act, while having material in it that I object to, DOES NOT provide for martial law ala 1930s Nazis. At all. Period. Nope. Here's exactly what it does, taken from Wikipedia:

"The Act increases the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial and other records; eases restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expands the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and enhances the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied."

Note: NO, and I mean absolutely NO mention of martial law, which is covered under Posse Comitatus, the Suspension Clause of the US Constitution, and the Military Commissions Act of 2006. People should be worried about the LATTER, not the Patriot Act.

I think the video was in reference to Obamamessiah's Civilian Defense Force idea that he floated last month.

The Civilian Defense Force idea that's floating around is not very new at all. As a matter of fact, it's a retread of a failed bill(s) that started during the Bush era. The bill is renewed every year or so. See the:

Universal National Service Act of 2003
Universal National Service Act of 2006
Universal National Service Act of 2007

Now, some agree with national service and others do not. But this whole concept that Obama is going to have some private SS group? Bullcrap. Read his notes and who sponsors it and you'll see a retread of the above bills. With mostly Democratic control, they might actually get it.

Isn't that pretty much the function and description of the National Guard? Not being from your parts, I have to ask, but from what I've heard it's the sort of idea it was designed for.

The National Guard falls under the Department of Defense and so may only be utilized by order of the State Governors or if the Department of Defense so orders them to battle. The DOD can't use NG units internally, only send them to Iraq.

This naturally creates a large problem. If we have a large crisis - say Hurricane Katrina - NG units cannot be deployed by FEMA, everyone has to first huddle and pass paperwork, and responses go to hell. We have absolutely NO national response teams for any type of crisis, other than the single Army unit that has been seconded to NORTHCOM under the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

I admire the UK in that sense. At the very least you have MI-5 and Special Branch that can be deployed wherever necessary to perform an investigation. Here, it just goes into clusterfuck mode and state and national forces block each other for prestige issues and nothing gets done.

[Evandril]

Isn't that pretty much the function and description of the National Guard? Not being from your parts, I have to ask, but from what I've heard it's the sort of idea it was designed for.

Rapscallion

The National Guard is designed to protect the areas they are responsible for from outside sources...This sounds more of an internal force, from the very little I know of it.

[AFPheonix]

All I can find on google are rantings from right-wing commentators, but it sounds like more of a continuation of Peace Corps and other volunteer opportunities, not another armed forces.

[Greenday]

Isn't that pretty much the function and description of the National Guard? Not being from your parts, I have to ask, but from what I've heard it's the sort of idea it was designed for.

Rapscallion

Exactly what I was just thinking. National Guard isn't stuck around it's primary location. You can get moved anywhere when a disaster hits.

[ArenaBoy]

All I can find on google are rantings from right-wing commentators, but it sounds like more of a continuation of Peace Corps and other volunteer opportunities, not another armed forces.

And MTV trying to be edgy is a failure. What a shock.

Personally, this is one of the things that I hate about the internet. Things get distorted quickly on a bigger scale.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec..._national.html

Obama, July 2, Colorado Springs, CO: [As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We'll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.

We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we're going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set.

We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We'll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You'll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You'll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.

This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up.

[ditchdj]

The PATRIOT Act, while having material in it that I object to, DOES NOT provide for martial law ala 1930s Nazis. At all. Period. Nope.

You obviously have NOT read this thing. These so called "rights" we wave around like Freedom of Speech, Bearing Arms, Due Process and such can be wiped out with the stoke of a pen under an Executive Order that was signed by Bush in his first term. The President can declare a National Emergency and poof, the USC doesn't apply, the Congress and Supreme Court go home and the Exec Branch takes over. Yes, it's far out fuzzy thinking, but then again, in 1934 who would have thought a little man, with a bad mustache and haircut could wipe out 6,000,000 people?

[AdminAssistant]

We are NOT Germany post-World War I. The entire world isn't picking on us, and we don't have a massive inferiority complex. The reason for Hitler's popularity is that the German people, initially, believed that he would raise up the fallen state and unite the German people. (Remember, Hitler was elected). We are in no way anywhere near to that situation. Besides, Hitler didn't exactly work alone, he had an entire team of goons and bullies working with him, some perhaps more monstrous than he.

Like Hitler, however, Bush did use fear and nationalism to get the Patriot Act passed and all of the other crazy bullshit he's pulled over the past 8 years. P-E Obama has already decreed that among his first executive orders will be the elimination of questionable interrogation techniques and Gitmo.

The problem with the National Guard right now is they're being used overseas, instead of here at home, which is where they're meant to be. I have no problem with a Civilian Defense Corps, as long as it's volunteer. Conscription just won't work in today's America.

[Slytovhand]

We are NOT Germany post-World War I. The entire world isn't picking on us, and we don't have a massive inferiority complex. The reason for Hitler's popularity is that the German people, initially, believed that he would raise up the fallen state and unite the German people. (Remember, Hitler was elected). We are in no way anywhere near to that situation. Besides, Hitler didn't exactly work alone, he had an entire team of goons and bullies working with him, some perhaps more monstrous than he.

While this is true, the relevant word in there is 'are'. Meaning, right now. Neither was Germany pre-WWI. Recently was a massive hit to the US economy. It's not too far-fetched to have anothe more disastrous hit to it (if the rest of the world stop trading in USD, and head for Euros instead, for example), and say, for all the debt the US has to get called in (sure - unlikely, but possible). Add another terrorist attack (who knows where that might come from - external or internal... lots of options there), and then just watch what people will do!

It's not a 'US' thing, it's a human thing... when the chips are down, humans tend to look for a scape-goat. After all, it was the Jews around WWII (actually, has been them for ages..). It was them because they had a nice stockpile of cash, which others didn't. How many people do you have over there at the moment who wouldn't blink to see illegal immigrants who currently have paying jobs get treated roughly or even terrorised by some sort of military or enforcement agency? How about 'suspected' terrorists??

Ok - I've just seen the vid (at home now ) And I've only really got one criticism... all those getting harrassed are white people... no Mexicans, no Middle Eastern, no Africans etc etc...

And - didn't vaguely similar scenes happen in the 50's during the McCarthy-ism period? Ok, maybe not the train scene, but certainly the second one at the house (granted, maybe not lots of ppl crammed onto a truck..though I wasn't there, so maybe they did!)

Oh, Exiled, I presume you're only referring to security interests for the MI-5 and Special Branch comment. Because they only deal with that - security. No troops to deploy in case of national emergencies, no battles, no units etc... Just a stack of people who, for the most part, wear white collars (sometimes they might throw some colour in there ), and sit in offices (plus some field operatives). But not even remotely resembling NG or this proposed CDF...

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm not saying I have a clue why MTV chose to air this stuff. I don't know. MTV probably isn't even sure.

However, I'd just like to say this: Never think it can't happen again. Anywhere. Even to us.

Most of those people who died in the Holocaust were most likely thinking "This cannot possibly happening here, in this time and place." as they were dragged off, degraded, dehumanized, and killed. The "gypsies" knew better. Most likely the homosexuals knew better, too. I would go so far as to suggest that's why the gypsies fought back so hard and the Jews didn't. The gypsies expected the worst. Heck, they lived side by side with "the worst." The Jews couldn't believe that in their modern times, that sort of barbarity would befall them. Just like we don't think it's possible, either.

I watched those spots and they made my blood run cold. It would have been just like that. MTV used "white" people to force the majority of viewers to be able to relate to the people in the vid in a very personal way. So that the majority of viewers would view themselves in those vids, their own homes and families. So that they couldn't, even on an unconcious level, detach themselves from the victims.

I'm not sure of MTV's point airing this, but their ad DID succeed in putting it into perspective. And that's fine. Never think it can't happen. Never forget.

[prb]

Despite the Patriot Act, it'd never happen in this day and age. Maybe if the world was total anarchy it would, but not in America or any of the other major nations.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2007/0...sh_give_h.html

[ArenaBoy]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2007/0...sh_give_h.html

Unless Obama's as idiotic as Bush (And from what I've heard from those who have had him as a Senator he's not), the possibility of it is farfetched given that Bush is out of the office in less than a week (Finally).

My problem with the ads are the following:

1. There's too many fucking people in this country (USA) who claim they're "paying attention to what the government is really doing" are the most clueless about what actually is going on. They're so caught up in fucking conspiracy theories that they've blinded themselves to the truth. These are the same people who think that on December 21st 2012 the world will end when anyone who bothers researching will learn that the Mayans didn't calculate their calendar to go beyond 2012.

2. While I'm all for freedom of speech, this is what I hate about computers and the internet: It allows nutjobs to be heard on a bigger scale.

3. Why the hell should we take anything from MTV seriously? This is the same channel that shows a bunch of spoiled girls on their 16th birthday acting like twits. I'm with AFPhoenix on this. They're trying to be edgy for the sake of it.

4. Any idea of Bush trying to claim power for himself needs to get their heads examined. He's leaving office next Tuesday. Do I think he tried to sign more power over to him? No but I wouldn't be surprised either.

5. The US will have hopefully learned its lesson (For once) to not vote for someone whose last name is Bush. Seriously, we already had one Bush in the early 90s and our economy was shit under him. But no, we had to go and hire an even stupider version. Seriously, has anyone taken a look at that family? Leadership is the last thing that should be associated with them.

[daleduke17]

Unless Obama's as idiotic as Bush (And from what I've heard from those who have had him as a Senator he's not),

How could they tell how Obama was as a senator? He was hardly ever around. He got elected into the Senate, turned around and started running for President. So, with a small sample size, he may not be that bad. Let's see if he can actually do what he claims he can do.