Women who complain they're "too beautiful".

[Gravekeeper]

Does this topic somehow exempt weight-based insults from being wrong? How would you feel if the same was said to you?

I wouldn't care. I referred to myself as such after losing some odd 30lbs inside of a month due to illness. It took almost 5 months to get back to a healthy weight for my height and I suffered malnutrition problems. I still have to keep an eye on my weight weekly to make sure I'm not slipping. Because I can and will forget to eat.

I'm tired of the double standards, and people thinking it's ok. Sizeism, body shaming, and body policing aren't just used against one group.

And that's fine, but your self righteous indignation in this case comes across as just looking for something to be offended by. If you can't see the difference between your situation and this self absorbed twat I'm not sure what else we can say to you.

Not everyone is you and needs you to be offended on their behalf.

[siead_lietrathua]

Sizeism, body shaming, and body policing aren't just used against one group.

wait, what? ok, i totally agree with that statement. but we aren't body shaming her. there's a great world of difference between saying "that girl's just a skinny bitch" VS "that's girl is too thin for a wrestler, she's in danger of harming herself because of it." unless she can be put up against people only in her weight class, she's at a disadvantage in strength. and in the small circuits you don't have the luxury of only fighting in your weight class.
plus, her cycles of bulking up and slimming down will end up harming her in the long run. just like any weight gain/loss in rapid succession can.

now we are mocking her for calling herself super-duper pretty, but her WEIGHT had nothing to do with us mocking her. her EGO is why we mocked her. (at least i think i can safely speak for multiple people here on this assertion, correct me if i'm wrong)

edit: to add a hubs comment. "just look at the WWE Divas. there are some of them that shouldn't be in a ring, or trying the stuff they are"

[Gravekeeper]

now we are mocking her for calling herself super-duper pretty, but her WEIGHT had nothing to do with us mocking her. her EGO is why we mocked her. (at least i think i can safely speak for multiple people here on this assertion, correct me if i'm wrong)

I'm mocking her because she's a self absorbed twat that seems more concerned with taking sexy selfies than her own safety or athletic performance. She bulks up a little bit when its convenient for her promo posters, then drops the muscle to go back to taking pictures of her tits to post on Facebook.

Her build would be fine, if she wasn't claiming to be an athlete in a career that demands a lot of physical power both to participate in and to avoid being badly injured in.

[siead_lietrathua]

Her build would be fine, if she wasn't claiming to be an athlete in a career that demands a lot of physical power both to participate in and to avoid being badly injured in.

heck, even having muscles and skills isn't enough some times. Courtney Rush just got back from having her collarbone broken, and she's awesome. >.<

if you look at any roster, you're gonna have varience in body size of the female talent. but if you look at Adiva
http://i.imgur.com/p0g588o.jpg

compared to other females.... like the roster of Shimmer
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...38314600_n.jpg

you can see the difference. her arms have no muscle to them. i would be shocked if she can lift her own weight, let alone maintain control while trying to toss around someone else's. you can be slim and be a wrestler, but you can't be bone-thin.

[BlaqueKatt]

If you can't see the difference between your situation and this self absorbed twat I'm not sure what else we can say to you.

Not everyone is you and needs you to be offended on their behalf.

So pointing out glaring double standards, and explaining why it's not ok=being offended on someone else's behalf?

saying "well it's ok because x" is a logical fallacy.

[Gravekeeper]

So pointing out glaring double standards, and explaining why it's not ok=being offended on someone else's behalf?

The way you're coming across is that you specifically came into the thread to find something to be offended about. You're still doing it despite everyone being reasonable in response. It sucks that you've had to face discrimination in your life but that doesn't mean you get to jump in and accuse people based on the weakest of "evidence" that fits your personal bias.

So if you want to sit there and view me as history's greatest monster because I used a simile, go for it. I honestly don't care. And the reason I don't care has nothing to do with your size and everything to do with your behaviour.

I will not live my life handling every other human being as if they are delicate china that will crumble at the slightest physical description of themselves.

saying "well it's ok because x" is a logical fallacy.

That's not how that fallacy works. Perhaps you should actually read it. I have not made a claim and you have certainly not demonstrated it false. The people explaining things to you in this thread are not doing so because they have suddenly been stricken with the light of truth. They're just trying to be reasonable with you.

[siead_lietrathua]

So pointing out glaring double standards, and explaining why it's not ok=being offended on someone else's behalf?

the only reason i question this is because, before, you were speaking as though we were talking about her weight as in level of fat. we are talking about MUSCLE.
i've pointed out a few times now, but i'll say it again. she's an athlete that is too thin, as in lacking MUSCLE, to be safe in her preferred sport. unless she puts on and keeps on the muscle, she's just gonna hurt herself. wrestling is far from a safe sport, especially when it crosses into the "sports entertainment" type.

Put it this way: if this was about a very thin, untoned male being in the ring, and we were saying he's not the right build for the sport and could get hurt, would you still be saying we're weightists? or would our comments make sense?

if it is not offensive to say a guy is too thin to wrestle properly, then it should not be offensive to say the same about a woman.

[Hyena Dandy]

to be fair though, if you know what you're doing it is possible to fight outside your class. you just can't be an IDIOT about it.

Seeing as she's a pro wrestler, fighting outside your class is actually quite common. We know it's scripted, just make us believe you're tough enough. See: Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, Shawn Michaels, almost anyone who ever fought Andre the Giant.

Also she's "wrestling" in jeans and a thong.

Again, not really a problem to me. Lita would often wear clothes that are inappropriate for actual fighting, too. But at least she had cargo pants on so she could maneuver.

http://www.wrestling-match.com/wp-co...0-685x1024.jpg

I'm tired of the double standards, and people thinking it's ok. Sizeism, body shaming, and body policing aren't just used against one group.

It's not a double standard. It's a single standard. Anyone who does pro wrestling needs to be in good shape to do it. Larger women are often quite successful. Kia Stevens had quite a successful career.

http://www.dory-funk.com/kong-2.jpg

As did Luna Vachon

http://uktodaynews.com/wp-content/up...una-Vachon.jpg

Neither of them are traditionally attractive, but they were in good enough shape.

So pointing out glaring double standards, and explaining why it's not ok=being offended on someone else's behalf?

saying "well it's ok because x" is a logical fallacy.

Uh, not really.

Lizzie Valesquez can't really put on muscle or fat. It would be wrong to mock her for looking different. It would be wrong to keep her out of most jobs over this. But if Lizzie Valesquez wanted to be a firefighter, her condition would keep her from doing that. It's just not safe.

Although her being underweight doesn't actually keep her from wrestling, it DOES keep her from wrestling well, and from being safe doing it.

It would be wrong to say that a guy putting on 40 pounds of fat over his vacation means he might not be able to do his job.

Unless that man was a jockey. Then his weight is going to slow the horse down. Or even, say, a soccer player. There's not really much preventing a guy who's got fat on him from playing soccer, but you'd wonder if he either has a medical condition that makes it dangerous, or if he wasn't dedicated to keeping in shape over the vacation.

This is a similar situation. Her being that thin is not SAFE. You need to have a certain amount of muscle and athleticism to wrestle. It's not about "She's not hot." It's about "She is not keeping in athletic shape for an athletic job."

I don't mind if she's booked to beat a 7 foot tall guy, I don't mind if she does it in jeans and a thong. Because the nature of her job means that we're suspending our disbelief. But I do mind if she does it while underweight, and also BADLY undertrained (/I/ can take a bump better than she can) because THAT means that she's not doing her job well. She doesn't have to be hot, but she does have to be in shape to perform, which she frequently isn't.

[Andara Bledin]

You know my favorite part of all the outrage and white knighting on the unhealthily thin woman's behalf?

That in the very same post, a guy is referred to as a "giant sweaty fatman" but that gets totally ignored in the rush to defend the poor attention-hungry wannabe wrestler that was called a "bag of sticks."

Talk about double standards. >_>

[Canarr]

That in the very same post, a guy is referred to as a "giant sweaty fatman" but that gets totally ignored in the rush to defend the poor attention-hungry wannabe wrestler that was called a "bag of sticks."

Talk about double standards. >_>

That was kind of beautiful...

[Gravekeeper]

We know it's scripted, just make us believe you're tough enough. See: Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, Shawn Michaels, almost anyone who ever fought Andre the Giant.

Well, yes. You still need to be in serious shape to do it though without risking life and limb. Hulk Hogan ruined a muscle in his back slamming Andre the Giant and that was with Andre helping him get him off the ground. Real actual injuries were fairly common in the WWF, they just had to act through it.

Again, not really a problem to me. Lita would often wear clothes that are inappropriate for actual fighting, too. But at least she had cargo pants on so she could maneuver.

It's not uncommon for female wrestlers to wear loose pants. They're perfectly fine since, as you say, you can maneuver in them. Tight jeans and a thong though? You'd be coughing that thong up by the end of any decent match. >.>

Talk about double standards. >_>

....<slow clap>

[Hyena Dandy]

Well, yes. You still need to be in serious shape to do it though without risking life and limb. Hulk Hogan ruined a muscle in his back slamming Andre the Giant and that was with Andre helping him get him off the ground. Real actual injuries were fairly common in the WWF, they just had to act through it.

Yeah, there's all these amazing stories you hear when you look up how kinda badass these guys were (and some still are, but the big WWE guys are more concerned about safety than they used to be) which is... Like, like I said. The big deal is that she isn't in shape enough to do this. I mean, look at D-Bry.

http://www.wrestlingrambles.com/wp-c...s.-batista.jpg

Here he is choking Batista

http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibti...a_original.png

Here he is doing his "Yes!" taunt in front of John Cena

He's a tiny little guy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lBryan2013.jpg

Here he is, same time as that Cena picture. He's TINY for a wrestler, but for a wrestler is the key. And I'm not arguing with GK, to be clear, I'm further elaborating my point.

It's not even a limit about necessarily standard body-stuff. Like, S

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...h_Gowen_14.jpg

Here he is with Hulk Hogan

http://www.allwrestlingnews.com/wp-c...Zach-Gowen.jpg

Here he is in match. You can see that he is missing one leg. That would be dickish to make fun of him for.

http://www.worldwrestlinginsanity.co...Matt_Taven.jpg

But here hs i doing stretches, and you see the guy's in damn good shape. Because even though he's got just the one leg, that leg is in shape. It's still, as I said, not a body positivity thing. It's a safety/doing your job thing. If she wants to look slim for a wrestler, no problem. But it has to be FOR A WRESTLER.

[Nyoibo]

You know my favorite part of all the outrage and white knighting on the unhealthily thin woman's behalf?

That in the very same post, a guy is referred to as a "giant sweaty fatman" but that gets totally ignored in the rush to defend the poor attention-hungry wannabe wrestler that was called a "bag of sticks."

Talk about double standards. >_>

And that right there wins the thread and proves the point.

[wolfie]

You know my favorite part of all the outrage and white knighting on the unhealthily thin woman's behalf?

That in the very same post, a guy is referred to as a "giant sweaty fatman" but that gets totally ignored in the rush to defend the poor attention-hungry wannabe wrestler that was called a "bag of sticks."

Talk about double standards. >_>

Not necessarily. The sweat might make it hard for his opponent to get a grip, but (from what I've seen in this thread) the big issue is that "Bag of sticks" doesn't have the muscle to do her job safely. It's entirely possible for Giant Sweaty Fatman to have plenty of muscle under his fat, making it safe for him to do his job.

Different sport, but William "Refrigerator" Perry was fat, while definitely having enough muscle to play professional football. Fat and muscle are not mutually exclusive.

[BlaqueKatt]

Put it this way: if this was about a very thin, untoned male being in the ring, and we were saying he's not the right build for the sport and could get hurt, would you still be saying we're weightists? or would our comments make sense?

if it is not offensive to say a guy is too thin to wrestle properly, then it should not be offensive to say the same about a woman.

but that isn't what was said, unless my computer screen left out words. You're defending a total rewording of what was said which isn't "the same thing". Apples/oranges.

if it had been said "she's lacking muscle for the sport she's participating in"
it's a whole lot different than "bag of sticks"

And I still say the fallacy stands because you've given no reason why a weight based derogatory comment is acceptable, just claimed it is.



from urban dictionary:
bag of antlers(closest term)
Term used to describe how a very skinny and/or bony woman looks or feels like.

And quite simply, if I made a comment, about the "big sweaty fat man", I'd be jumped on for "white knighting" because I'm thin. Glad I clairified my stance only to, as always, be ignored:

how is "bag of sticks" NOT derogatory? it's a disparaging remark based solely on weight, calling someone fat, whale, moose, etc. isn't ok. Both are hurtful.

*I stand by the only time ANYONE should say ANYTHING about someone's weight is if they are a medical professional seeing a patient in a medical setting and the patient has asked.

I used to have weight issues(still do, my 7 years of having an eating disorder has really messed up my body, in ways you wouldn't believe*). I'm sick and tired of being called weight based names because it's "acceptable", for no other reason than I'm the opposite end of the spectrum and therefore I don't have feelings or something.

it's "normalized" and anyone saying *anything* is jumped on for "white knghting" being "butthurt" or "needs to get over themselves"

sizeism

Like other forms of discrimination, sizeism isn't always explicit. It involves the perpetuation of stereotypes and the attitudes that support those stereotypes. It can also manifest in the form of language; terms such as “beanpole” for tall people and “fat pig” for people who are overweight usually are sizeist epithets. Analyzing the behavior of others and being unafraid to question people's attitudes also is important. As in the case of other “-isms,” education and explanation of why sizeism is offensive to many people can help lead to cultural changes in attitudes and actions.

But of course I'm in the wrong.

*It was also around the time George Carlin came out with his bit on "Rich Cunt doesn't want to eat? Fuck 'em" So I got to hear that parroted at me constantly, yeah just as hilarious as dennis leary's "fat virus-bit"(which I have never listened to anything else he ever did because of that bit.)