School violence...this time with a knife

[Duelist925]

You guys can celebrate another mass attack all you want. I'd prefer there weren't any attacks at all regardless of weapon. I don't see this as some kind of victory that the attacker decided to use knives over guns.

In the end, 20 kids got stabbed and there's no bright side to that.

In the end, 20 kids were stabbed and didn't die.

To echo stabler: You have to be trolling. No on here is celebrating the attack, and suggesting we are is, at absolute best, dense as lead. At worst, it's horribly insulting.

We are expressing relief that no one died.

this does not equal celebrating a mass attack.

I almost hope this is trolling. The alternative is worse.

[Peppergirl]

Alright, stop with the accusations of trolling. Whether you agree with GD or not, he's an established member here and is most certainly not trolling.

Some of the comments have veered dangerously close to personal attacks, and it stops now.

Carry on, but lets try to respect one another a bit more this time, yes?

[Greenday]

I just don't think the choice of weapon is any kind of victory, however small it is. I'm focusing on the most important thing: these mass attacks are still happening and no one seems to be interested in stopping them. The media sensationalizes it for the ratings. The common person just forgets about it because hey, it really didn't affect them. So we'll continue to see people in schools get shot, get stabbed, whatever. Why? Cause no one cares.

[siead_lietrathua]

i'm fairly certian that people in this thread being thankful that noone died, automatically implies that they care. you talk about how the media focuses on it. but by exposing "the common people" to the problem, it does make it a concern for more individuals.
people care, expecially when it comes to the lives of children. i don't see where on earth you are getting an idea that they don't.

we will continue seeing people getting hurt in schools because mental health treatment is appaling in the states, and damaged people that could use some serious help either can't get access to it, can't afford it, or the idea of getting help is too stigmatizing. the government and medical feilds need an overhaul and far more funding before the root of the problem will even be something that can be touched.

but it has nothing to do with whether or not the "common man" cares. the common man DOES care. but the common man isn't in government/ lobbying the money away from where it is needed.

[Hyena Dandy]

I just don't think the choice of weapon is any kind of victory, however small it is.

No-one said that not using a gun was a victory. You're the one who made it about guns.

[Gravekeeper]

I just don't think the choice of weapon is any kind of victory, however small it is. I'm focusing on the most important thing: these mass attacks are still happening and no one seems to be interested in stopping them.

No one argued anything you're talking about and rather than change direction when confronted you just kept moving the goal posts to a new indignation. Now you've come up with another accusation that has no basis in fact to be upset about.

No one seems interested in stopping them? You can't be serious.

[Kheldarson]

No one seems interested in stopping them? You can't be serious.

No, there's a point there. We don't talk about the mental health issues that may have caused the snap; we try to find something to regulate to make us feel like it won't happen again.

We don't keep it quiet to show that it's not a way to get noticed; it's the only thing talked about for weeks. Because ratings. Which leads to copycats.

[TheHuckster]

I just don't think the choice of weapon is any kind of victory, however small it is. I'm focusing on the most important thing: these mass attacks are still happening and no one seems to be interested in stopping them. The media sensationalizes it for the ratings. The common person just forgets about it because hey, it really didn't affect them. So we'll continue to see people in schools get shot, get stabbed, whatever. Why? Cause no one cares.

I disagree with "no one cares." It's more like "most people feel helpless."

I mean, really, what can the common person do to prevent the next school massacre? Should they profile every student and determine based on their behavior how likely they are to destroy their classmates' lives? Should they act like a mob and knock down every door that has a kid and read their journal or diary to pick up some red flags?

The media likes to portray a lot of these attackers as having had warning signs before the massacre, ranging from secret drawings hidden under their mattress to the simple fact that they were quiet loners that didn't have many friends or were bullied... but you can't profile or judge based on that criteria alone, because for every one of those kids who fit that criteria actually kill their classmates in a bloody rampage, there are a hundred kids who do not.

No, there's a point there. We don't talk about the mental health issues that may have caused the snap

Just adding to this, I'd like to know, how does a parent, teacher, or principal distinguish normal teenage angst or simply "unusual personality" from a diagnoseable illness that needs treatment? While some of the incidents, such as the Sandy Hook and Aurora shootings, were killings perpetrated by those who were actually diagnosed (or at least suspected with) with a personality disorder, many others, such as Columbine and this stabbing incident don't have very obvious warning signs (in fact, this is a case where the perpetrator seemingly showed no signs of mental illness or even odd behavior, according to classmates and parents).

I know that some of these shootings might have never taken place if the perpetrators got their needed treatment, but it's not the end-all-be-all solution that people seem to be touting... not without some rather invasive measures.

[Kheldarson]

Just adding to this, I'd like to know, how does a parent, teacher, or principal distinguish normal teenage angst or simply "unusual personality" from a diagnoseable illness that needs treatment? While some of the incidents, such as the Sandy Hook and Aurora shootings, were killings perpetrated by those who were actually diagnosed (or at least suspected with) with a personality disorder, many others, such as Columbine and this stabbing incident don't have very obvious warning signs (in fact, this is a case where the perpetrator seemingly showed no signs of mental illness or even odd behavior, according to classmates and parents).

I know that some of these shootings might have never taken place if the perpetrators got their needed treatment, but it's not the end-all-be-all solution that people seem to be touting... not without some rather invasive measures.

You don't know, and I'm not suggesting that we're going to stop all shootings, massacres, etc. because evil always happens.

It's more a comment towards removing the stigma of asking for and getting the help you need before hitting these breaking points. Even if it only prevents 50% of these sorts of acts, that's still a lot of lives saved.

It's also just a call to parents to be involved in their kids' lives. Not helicopter wise, but informed enough to hopefully catch trends early on. You might still miss things but hopefully more care will help.

[TheHuckster]

You don't know, and I'm not suggesting that we're going to stop all shootings, massacres, etc. because evil always happens.

It's more a comment towards removing the stigma of asking for and getting the help you need before hitting these breaking points. Even if it only prevents 50% of these sorts of acts, that's still a lot of lives saved.

It's also just a call to parents to be involved in their kids' lives. Not helicopter wise, but informed enough to hopefully catch trends early on. You might still miss things but hopefully more care will help.

I understand, and I'm not saying we should just remain bystanders to the issue just because some action isn't going to prevent every instance. However, I do have a worry about overreacting, to the point we stigmatize every kid who behaves differently than all the other kids and label them a "red flag" and "possible serial murderer."

I just foresee this trend of teachers making horrible assumptions on any student that doesn't make many friends or behaves a little anti-socially. Making those assumptions could either make the situation worse or simply ostracize those kids even more than they already are. Most kids who keep to themselves, are introverted, or have some odd quirks turn out harmless and even grow out of it later on in life. I just hope we don't do what I feel often happens, and paint that profile with a broad brush and label all of them "potentially dangerous."

[Gravekeeper]

No, there's a point there. We don't talk about the mental health issues that may have caused the snap; we try to find something to regulate to make us feel like it won't happen again.

On the contrary, mental health issues get just as sensationalized as the gun angle. After the last Fort Hood shooting, Fox News was on a tirade about basically locking up all the mentally ill. Now they're on one, again, with the second shooting even though the second shooter was only suffering from PTSD and was otherwise legally sane. Focusing on mental health distracts from the sacred cow of gun control. Oh, and video games, that's the other one that gets repeatedly blamed for this stuff.

Also, it is rarely a psychotic break. The vast majority of school mass shootings are perpetrated by individuals who have planned the attack in advance, sometimes for months in advance. The common themes amongst almost all of them are the shooter reported or had been a victim of bullying, alienation or persecution at the hands of their peers. Not that they had severe unaddressed mental health issues.

87% of school mass shooters in the US reported or left behind evidence that they were bullied. It is also almost always a young white male from an urban or suburban neighbourhood. While legitimate severe mental health does account for some shootings, its actually the minority. The majority appear to be the result of what would essentially be prolonged mental/physical trauma. Something US schools are quite good at ignoring, brushing under the rug or dismissing as kids being kids.

[Andara Bledin]

We don't keep it quiet to show that it's not a way to get noticed; it's the only thing talked about for weeks. Because ratings. Which leads to copycats.

This is actually a serious issue. Columbine was committed specifically to get in the news. Aurora was done in part because mental health professionals wouldn't take him seriously.

We stopped reporting so heavily on suicides to help prevent others from copycatting, but we saturate the airwaves with mass killings/attacks with 24/7 coverage while every lurid detail about the perpetrators is dragged through the public eye, making it a gloriously attractive option for those who want to have their names go down in history and don't care if they die in the attempt.

[Hyena Dandy]

On the contrary, mental health issues get just as sensationalized as the gun angle. After the last Fort Hood shooting, Fox News was on a tirade about basically locking up all the mentally ill.

I feel the two things are interconnected. Because there's a lot of focus on the gun angle, Fox feels compelled to counter that with a different type of sensationalism, so that it's "Anything but guns." If the shooter was Muslim, they go with that instead.

[Greenday]

On the contrary, mental health issues get just as sensationalized as the gun angle. After the last Fort Hood shooting, Fox News was on a tirade about basically locking up all the mentally ill. Now they're on one, again, with the second shooting even though the second shooter was only suffering from PTSD and was otherwise legally sane. Focusing on mental health distracts from the sacred cow of gun control. Oh, and video games, that's the other one that gets repeatedly blamed for this stuff.

Also, it is rarely a psychotic break. The vast majority of school mass shootings are perpetrated by individuals who have planned the attack in advance, sometimes for months in advance. The common themes amongst almost all of them are the shooter reported or had been a victim of bullying, alienation or persecution at the hands of their peers. Not that they had severe unaddressed mental health issues.

87% of school mass shooters in the US reported or left behind evidence that they were bullied. It is also almost always a young white male from an urban or suburban neighbourhood. While legitimate severe mental health does account for some shootings, its actually the minority. The majority appear to be the result of what would essentially be prolonged mental/physical trauma. Something US schools are quite good at ignoring, brushing under the rug or dismissing as kids being kids.

So you've identified would could easily be two causations of these attacks. Where's the push among the public to increase the quality and availability of mental health care? Some places have begun to push for the fight against bullies. New Jersey actually passed legislation that holds schools and teachers responsible for letting bullying go on.

[Gravekeeper]

So you've identified would could easily be two causations of these attacks. Where's the push among the public to increase the quality and availability of mental health care? Some places have begun to push for the fight against bullies. New Jersey actually passed legislation that holds schools and teachers responsible for letting bullying go on.

Why do you keep asking us questions you could verify with 30 seconds on Google? There's been a push for mental healthcare improvement since the 80s and a ramp up in it, and congress working on it, since the 90s. There's been 8 major mental health reform bills signed into law since 94. All pushed by Democrats of course. Especially as of late, where for every 1 mental health bill submitted there are 3 the Republicans killed.

The most recent major health care bill was signed into law just a little over a week ago. After being killed twice before. It took 2 years and Sandy Hook for the Republicans to offer enough bipartisan support to pass it.

That is, however, only half the problem. The other half is that your health care system just sucks to begin with. The failures in the US mental health care system are not professional, they are structural and financial. Mental health care incurs as big a financial burden as any other ailment in the US. That's why they're on the street or in prison even if their condition is perfectible treatable with modern medicine.

If you can't afford to pay for your hospital bill, you go into debt, perhaps bankruptcy. If you're particularly unlucky, you end up broke and homeless, but there are still at least some support services for you.

If you can't afford to pay for your mental health care, you're probably not going to be capable to manage the financial fallout due to your condition. You'll likely end up on the street and be the crazy guy that yells at voices outside the subway that everyone is afraid of. No one's going to come down and take you to a homeless shelter. They don't have the capability to manage your condition.