Comic Critique leads to rape threats

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

If you truly believe that art forms don't bleed into each other, there really isn't anything to discuss. To me, art influences art.

http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/22-87...-Volume-15-TPB
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=107920

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/you_r...nder/v07/c044/
http://comicsalliance.com/lobo-new-5...comics-new-52/

[Kheldarson]

If you truly believe that art forms don't bleed into each other, there really isn't anything to discuss.

Really? That's what you're going to end with?

We're discussing the Western audience reaction to a Western media. You're trying to bring in an medium from another country which doesn't have the same cultural background as us and isn't crying out for changes within the art form and trying to declare it equal.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Honestly? Yes. My interest has been maxed on this issue and I think my point has been made enough times as has yours. If you do not believe art is connected, I fail to see how we would reconcile our points of view especially in a world where many people can and do change what they consume on a moments notice due to preference up to and including foreign art consumption. What is there to discuss besides we disagree?

[Kheldarson]

Honestly? Yes. My interest has been maxed on this issue and I think my point has been made enough times as has yours. If you do not believe art is connected, I fail to see how we would reconcile our points of view especially in a world where many people can and do change what they consume on a moments notice due to preference up to and including foreign art consumption. What is there to discuss besides we disagree?

You didn't present the art as being connected or give a case as to why they were. You just presented them as being completely equal. I'm challenging that assumption in terms of cultural background, base audience, and current audience. They aren't just art forms, as well; they're storytelling mediums with different purposes and audiences.

Again, the issue with comic books is that they are not catering to their current, actual, fan base. In this thread alone, we have numerous people who agree, for a variety of reasons, that the images that superhero comic books present are not realistic and, therefore, are not what the audience wants. And, further, coming from the cultural audience that the art and stories come from.

You don't have the same outcry coming from Japan against yaoi pretty boys. Therefore, it's not quite the same problem. Further, their art forms reflect things about their culture, the same way that our art reflects our culture. Which again brings me back to the idea that our Western comics are not accurately reflecting what the audience is desiring culturally.

[HYHYBT]

Large breasts do not fit into any fantasy of mine, yet I think comic book heroines (assuming they're drawn skillfully either way) look better with them.

[Kheldarson]

Large breasts do not fit into any fantasy of mine, yet I think comic book heroines (assuming they're drawn skillfully either way) look better with them.

Why? Serious question. Would they look bad with skillfully drawn smaller sizes?

[Hyena Dandy]

Wait, can someone explain what the Conan things have to do with this? I mean that sounds to me less like people having a freakout because it hurts their power fantasy, and more like people having a freakout because a thing is different from the way that thing used to be.

[Bloodsoul]

Why are all of the of age women presented as being large chested then? What is the purpose of showing that as a consistent trait?

I'm honestly reminded of the "Boobs of Steel" TVTrope which, if I remember correctly, put forth the idea that large breasts being a staple of at least female power-houses (Wonder Woman, Power Girl, She-Hulk) was due to "big features" supposedly reflecting said power and strength (because apparently one is more likely to believe that She-Hulk can lift something heavy over her head as opposed to Batgirl because She-Hulk has greater size and mass).

After rewatching Linkara's review of, eh, Sultry Teenage Super Foxes, I noticed the girl with the largest bust was also the one gifted with the greatest strength amongst the group. Hell, the concept even bled over into my quote-unquote artwork due to the character creation mode in SoulCalibur IV, since their simple "physique" slider affected not just a woman's arms and legs, but her breasts as well; so when attempting to give a giant sword fighter a large, well-defined musculature (because, as above, I have a hard time seeing a waif wield a slab of iron as big as herself), this had the affect of giving her a larger bust and, well… I've gotten used to drawing her with that (although after reading through the archives of Busty Girl Comics, it'll be interesting to put her in situations where it's more of a curse than a blessing).

Granted, I tried to rectify myself a bit by at least trying to give her an outfit meant to make her look tough, rugged, and solid; like, if you were to punch her in the face this would be the result (outdated video, though, as her musculature slider has since been increased from +0 to +50).

Okay, I'm not sure if I'm even making any sense and am probably just digging myself into a hole, so let me finish this post by saying 1) I miss the old Lobo because he was just pure, exaggerated fun; he and his physique were never meant to be taken seriously (dude once latched his chains onto an intelligent supercomputer possessing stellar mass and slammed it into a building), and 2) I want less ectomorphic whatever and more Hi-C Ecto Cooler.

[siead_lietrathua]

I'm honestly reminded of the "Boobs of Steel" TVTrope which, if I remember correctly, put forth the idea that large breasts being a staple of at least female power-houses (Wonder Woman, Power Girl, She-Hulk) was due to "big features" supposedly reflecting said power and strength (because apparently one is more likely to believe that She-Hulk can lift something heavy over her head as opposed to Batgirl because She-Hulk has greater size and mass).

makes sense. i mean, the chest muscles on a woman are under her boobs. the issue is, with real women, hitting body-builder strength reduces breast tissue. girls packing a serious punch based on working out should really be flat-chested. (shehulk/ powergirl/ others with superpower generated strength maybe not so much)
seriously, google up 'naked female body builders' to get an idea. once you hit the ones that are packing serious muscle, if they have large breasts, it's implants. ((one OBVIOUSLY NSFW example: http://www.kaotic.com/media/pictures...f384e9d7f5.jpg)

i can see why an artist would just give them larger breasts. not that i'm knocking the bodybuilder look. but simply enlarging the bust gives the same effect without making the females hella more androgynous.

hubs comment: if you made the strong women look more like men (like they would IRL) you'd just have people complaining they weren't representing women right because real women have curves.

[Bloodsoul]

I understand that and, well, I would certainly like to find a nice balance between the two… extremes?† I'm just thinking that "Boobs of Steel" came about because, "well, if we make the arms bigger and the legs bigger and even the butt bigger… then the boobs should be bigger, too! Durr……" Something like that.

†As a personal preference I'm not actually a fan of the super ripped/cut body-builder type, so I think if I were to draw Superman or She-Hulk I'd give 'em good muscle size, but try to refrain from making them look as though their abs have abs. A smidgen of fat's not a bad thing!

[siead_lietrathua]

†As a personal preference I'm not actually a fan of the super ripped/cut body-builder type, so I think if I were to draw Superman or She-Hulk I'd give 'em good muscle size, but try to refrain from making them look as though their abs have abs. A smidgen of fat's not a bad thing!

totally can dig. but also, people like superman/ shehulk have their strength through powers. they could actually get away with being slimmer.

but ones like batman/ wonder woman (and other super-powerless heroes) would have to be pretty ripped to pull off some of the shit they do.

[HYHYBT]

Why? Serious question. Would they look bad with skillfully drawn smaller sizes?

Serious question: Why?
Serious answer: I don't know. But it's not that they'd look bad, and it's certainly not true that there's no limit to "bigger is better."

[otakuneko]

Well, they can't all be number 47.

[Andara Bledin]

Late to the party, but had to correct this misconception:

You still missed my point. It's not the body type that's attractive in a male: it's what's done with the body type. It's the muscles, the show of power, that's attractive.

Generally speaking, women don't care so much about musculature. Multiple studies of what women find attractive have come up with similar results: Low body fat - about 12% - is key. In fact, the muscle-bound appearance referred to here, the "show of power" is what men find attractive, not women. Too much muscle isn't as bad as too much fat, but it isn't typically considered attractive.

but ones like batman/ wonder woman (and other super-powerless heroes) would have to be pretty ripped to pull off some of the shit they do.

Wonder Woman can go toe to toe with Superman on a good day... She's far from super-powerless.

[Kheldarson]

Late to the party, but had to correct this misconception:

Generally speaking, women don't care so much about musculature. Multiple studies of what women find attractive have come up with similar results: Low body fat - about 12% - is key. In fact, the muscle-bound appearance referred to here, the "show of power" is what men find attractive, not women.

I wasn't saying muscle bound, I meant musculature as in a defined look. The guys who you can see the definition on, but not necessarily bulging with muscle. Your athlete. Because you can't tell me the study you're referencing used guys with no muscle tone who were found attractive.