My husband's thoughts about people on Welfare

[Greenday]

For the abortion thing, I think that falls under the "Thou shalt not kill" commandment which is what a lot of our (meaning the modern day world, not just America) laws are based on.

I'm willing to go with that argument, as it makes sense, but where does contraception fall under that? Cause contraception isn't murder.

[IDrinkaRum]

No, but then it prevents life. Thereby disobeying God's command to Adam & Eve after they're kicked out of the Garden of Eden to "go forth and multiply".

[kiwi]

I find your husbands comments very sad, although I know they must come from frustration rather than ignorance.

The problem is there are so many reasons people live on welfare, if you live in a plant town and the plan/ mine/ mill etc closes there could be thousands of people out of work... that doesnt mean they all have the money to move for work. Does that make them bad or lazy, not to me.

There are parents (like mine) who had children with very bad illnesses as children, my brother and I have had over 30 operations combined and were in and out of hospital every few months, and at the doctors office at least once a week. No one in the world is going to allow my mother that kind of time off and let her keep a job. Does that mean my mother was lazy or a drain on the system, no in my opinion.

What about a woman or man with an abusive spouse, it will take them a while to get on their feet and thats what welfare is there for.
There are many reasons that are genuine cases of needing help.

Yes there are thousands who do rip off the system, but that is a failing of the system, not a failing of the many people who genuinely NEED a helping hand. Obviously there is something that doesnt allow for proper checking of who really needs help and who doesnt. That needs to change, but decent people who are in a bad situation shouldnt be treated as sub-human because of a number of selfish jerks.

The government has no right to dictate what you do with your body and thats what I believe your husbands thoughts do.
I do agree with a law that was proposed in Aussie a few years ago, if you become pregnant while already on welfare, they wont increase the amount you recieve. But I do believe that in Aussie just like NZ you can get free contraception from a family planning clinic. I dont know how well that will work in real life however.

Its like how a few bad retail workers have given the many of us who try very hard to give good service a bad name. We are all viewed as lazy, no hopers who simply cant get a "better" job. Thats simply not true.

[anriana]

You know, the Roman Catholic Church is against a lot of things. Except I don't the Bible saying anything about not doing them.

Their doctrines don't have to be in the Bible because the Popes are God's mouthpieces on Earth and get to make up whatever rules they want.


Christian Scientists are also opposed to contraception.

[AFPheonix]

That's what I think about Welfare too. But there have been stories here and on CS that seem to show that people use it and unemployment benes to stave off having to work.

I just think there should be a cap on how long you get welfare. Those getting it should show that they're going to some kind of schooling to improve their stations in life, have someone kinda like a counselor to report to once a week to show they're doing something to help themselves out.

As for the enforced birth control? If you're struggling with 2 or whatever number of children on your income why the heck are you going to go for baby #3? or baby # whatever? Think about the children you already have. The people do need to be more responsible. Doesn't Planned Parenthood have programs that help the low-income people with birth control?

We're staring down double digit unemployment in several areas of the country, and the national average is heading that way too. Honestly, there are a lot of people who want to work and just flat out can't find a job.

As for the baby #3 thing, have you never heard of an oops baby? Even with women who take birth control? Guess what, I was one of those, and I was baby #6.
Not to mention that there is a percentage of low income women who come from an abuse history who attract more abusers, end up getting raped, and decide to keep the baby instead of aborting.

[Evandril]

The system I'd have no problem with would be to make taking birth control a requirement to GET welfare. You don't want to take it? No problem, that's your choice...but you're not getting the money you want. Have a child while on welfare? No extra money for it, with that being made VERY clear from the start. Unfortunatly, the way the system is at present, having more kids *makes* you money, and puts even more pressure on an already abused situation. If a person is currently on welfare, and honestly trying to get off of it, I do not see them deciding it would be a good time to have more kids...If they are, I would have questions about their intelligence

[Sylvia727]

Any forced or coerced birth control is a violation of human rights. The right to choose what we do with our own bodies is at the core of freedom and independence. Most people on welfare or who are eligible for welfare are not lazy bums sitting around unemployed watching their 50" plasma tvs. They geniunely cannot work, cannot find work, or cannot make ends meet on the work they can do. Many of those on welfare have large medical bills, are disabled, or are recently widowed or divorced single parents. I can't understand why people would support splitting up families over a certain size based on the stereotype of the teenaged pregnant mother who's going nowhere in life. Now, saying that those on welfare should be more closely watched by Social Services, that I could get behind. There's no need to paint all welfare families with the same tar brush.

[anriana]

How would taking birth control be enforced? As far as I know, it couldn't even be enforced on half of the potential applicants as male contraception isn't market-ready. How would you prove women are on birth control? Mandated monthly hormone checks? Use Depo (long-term shot) as the form of birth control? Or an IUD? What exactly would be the logistics?

[Lace Neil Singer]

Would be far better to make it so that in order to qualify for benefits, people have to get off their bums and do something like get education, do voluntary work etc. There are actually people around who are perfectly happy to vegetate on benefits and not bother to even try and get work cuz they think, "Well, the government will give me money to look after my children".

For the record, I'm on tax credits so I'm hardly going to be knocking anyone who gets government assistance and really needs it. But any system is going to have its abusers and leaches who need to be weeded out.

In England, you can get free birth control anyway; I'm on the pill which I get for free, and you can get free condoms from Family Planning clinics. But some people choose not to use it, and say things like, "I wasn't taking birth control, and I ended up pregnant to my surprise" which makes you wonder if anyone actually taught these people about the birds and the bees. O_o

Read this for an example of the above remark: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-triplets.html

[Evandril]

Any forced or coerced birth control is a violation of human rights. The right to choose what we do with our own bodies is at the core of freedom and independence. Most people on welfare or who are eligible for welfare are not lazy bums sitting around unemployed watching their 50" plasma tvs. They geniunely cannot work, cannot find work, or cannot make ends meet on the work they can do. Many of those on welfare have large medical bills, are disabled, or are recently widowed or divorced single parents. I can't understand why people would support splitting up families over a certain size based on the stereotype of the teenaged pregnant mother who's going nowhere in life. Now, saying that those on welfare should be more closely watched by Social Services, that I could get behind. There's no need to paint all welfare families with the same tar brush.

If you cannot work, cannot find work, or cannot make ends meet on the work you can do...*WHY* do you want to have kids? All the situations where the people are blameless are *not* ones I feel would benifit from having an additional mouth to feed. How it would be administered would be more interesting, and part of why I stipulated if you *do* have a child after that point, you're not getting any benifits for it...So the people who lie or cheat on it will reap the appropriate rewards.

[anriana]

Because of this thread I'm going to go on welfare and pop out a kid a year for as long as I can. XD

[Greenday]

Because of this thread I'm going to go on welfare and pop out a kid a year for as long as I can. XD

Do it. You won't.

[AFPheonix]

The system I'd have no problem with would be to make taking birth control a requirement to GET welfare. You don't want to take it? No problem, that's your choice...but you're not getting the money you want. Have a child while on welfare? No extra money for it, with that being made VERY clear from the start. Unfortunatly, the way the system is at present, having more kids *makes* you money, and puts even more pressure on an already abused situation. If a person is currently on welfare, and honestly trying to get off of it, I do not see them deciding it would be a good time to have more kids...If they are, I would have questions about their intelligence

Sucks to be the girl who gets migraines from the hormones, eh? Too bad, you're poor, therefore you get to have your reproductive choices dictated to you.
And again, not everyone PLANS PREGNANCY. Sometimes, even despite the best intentions and care, they happen. I have 3 level headed women in my life, 2 of whom work alongside me in pharmacy who know how to take birth control correctly who are now unexpectedly pregnant.

Honestly, I cannot understand this kind of viewpoint, especially from people like us who work in retail, therefore don't really make that much money and realistically are a store-closing away from having to get some kind of help. Ideology is a terrible thing sometimes.

[Lady_Foxfire]

Ok, I have to throw my two cents in on this topic.

First, I am 100%, completely and totally against forcing birth control or sterilization on anyone, or taking children away from their parents just because they're poor. It's a violation of human rights, plain and simple.

Second, even if they know they can't afford another kid, people are still going to have sex. Some of them might not understand contraception well enough (thank you, abstinence-only education!), some of them might not have access to contraception, and some of them might just get unlucky. Every kind of birth control has a failure rate, and sooner or later the odds are going to catch up with you. What is the government supposed to do, force them to have an abortion? See my above point for the answer to that question. (on a related note, this is why I don't like the idea of refusing to increase welfare payments for people who get pregnant while on assistance. Yeah, it discourages the true "welfare queens", but it's not fair to well-meaning people who find themselves with another mouth to feed)

My only real suggestion for solving this conundrum is making sure that everybody who is on welfare has access to family planning services. It won't be 100% effective, but it will help reduce the number of accidental pregnancies.

[Sylvia727]

If you cannot work, cannot find work, or cannot make ends meet on the work you can do...*WHY* do you want to have kids?

Maybe you had the kids before you lost your job, your spouse left you, or your relative got sick. Maybe your religion prohibits birth control. Maybe, as Lady Foxfire pointed out, you were using birth control but the condom broke or the pills didn't work right. Maybe it was an accident. Maybe you're just a naive kid who still believes in your own invincibility, and you're about to get a really big wake up call. Maybe you can just barely make ends meet, and welfare would help you get yourself and your kids ahead in life.

Where are people coming from on this topic? I initially assumed that the supporters of this proposal had the hypothetical children's best interests at heart, but after reading more, it seems as if some people are more worried about the state shouldering the financial burden. To protect the children while still balancing human rights, we should ensure that families on welfare have access to family planning. With the number of free clinics that are out there, it shouldn't be too hard for welfare families to have free, reliable birth control. Ordinarily I would also say that Social Services should pay attention to welfare families, but Social Services over here in the Midwest USA is so screwed up that this isn't a good solution here. In places where Social Services has enough budget, manpower, training, and competance to do their jobs properly, perhaps welfare status could be (or is, for all I know) one of their red flags.