Elliot Rodger...The Ultimate "Nice Guy."

[Jester]

I chose the title of the thread very deliberately.

There is a difference between a nice guy, which you accurately described, and a "nice guy," which is a raging douche who thinks that because he does some nice things for girls or is polite or whatever, he is entitled to her attention, love, and sexual favors.

Somewhere along the line, a bunch of douchey assholes decided they were "nice guys," and co-opted that phrase, unfairly putting themselves in the same camp as actual nice guys. And their neglect by women, as they see it, proves the adage that "nice guys finish last."

Elliot Rodger was a perfect example, perhaps the ultimate example, of the latter kind of guy. He was not a nice guy at all, but he was the logical (and psychopathic) extension of the "nice guy" phenomenon.

I did not mean to slight or insult actual nice guys, of whom I count myself one. There are some truly awesome guys out there, who are genuinely nice, who do not deserve to be lumped in with the "nice guys" that are douches, are the psycho that Rodger was. Hence the use of quotes when referring to the faux "nice guys," who are anything but.

[KabeRinnaul]

The "actual" nice guys you describe are probably better referred to as "gentlemen". It helps make it clear that you don't mean the self-proclaimed Nice Guys, who are really just passive-aggressive entitlement whores.

[siead_lietrathua]

Hence the use of quotes when referring to the faux "nice guys," who are anything but.

while i dig what your saying, i'm one for calling a spade a spade, and a douchebag a douchebag lol.
those guys that are douchebags shouldn't be called nice guys, and should be corrected when they call themselves that. if for no other reason than to keep real nice guys free of guilt by association.

still, elliot wasn't even a douche. the guy was just a freakin loonie.

@Kabe
i've heard "gentlemen" nice guys call themselves nice guys before. including the dreaded sentence "i'm such a nice guy... i don't know why they keep dumping me".

[Jester]

The "actual" nice guys you describe are probably better referred to as "gentlemen". It helps make it clear that you don't mean the self-proclaimed Nice Guys, who are really just passive-aggressive entitlement whores.

Which is why I always use quotes when describing those idiots.

As for the actual nice guys, not all nice guys are gentlemen, nor all gentlemen nice guys. At least not in my experience.

those guys that are douchebags shouldn't be called nice guys, and should be corrected when they call themselves that. if for no other reason than to keep real nice guys free of guilt by association.

The problem is that those douches have taken to calling themselves "nice guys," and Rodger was definitely one of them. He actually used the word "gentleman" to describe himself on multiple occasions.

Me, I refer to the truly nice guys as great guys most of the time, because usually they are, and that way there is no confusion between them and the douchey "nice guys."

still, elliot wasn't even a douche. the guy was just a freakin loonie.

To dismiss Elliot as just nuts is to miss a whole lot. He was not some raving lunatic spouting random nonsense, but a cold, calculating, and hateful killer who went about his business with vindictive purpose.

Writing him off as nothing more than a wacko fails to realize the damage these so-called "nice guys" can wreak. Which is why I said he was the ultimate version of them.

@Kabe
i've heard "gentlemen" nice guys call themselves nice guys before. including the dreaded sentence "i'm such a nice guy... i don't know why they keep dumping me".

I've uttered similar lines in my life. I've been down, I've been depressed, I've done the whole "woe is me" thing, and wondered how so many women could not realize what a great guy I was and go for the losers I'd see them with.

Then, after the self-pity had run its course, I'd pull my head out of my ass and go about enjoying my life. Because there is a huge difference between a bit of whining and shaking your fist at the universe for its unfairness, and making that your life philosophy and guiding purpose, while thinking that any women owed you anything. The only women who owe me anything are the clerks at the supermarket, and all they owe me is my change back from my purchases.

[siead_lietrathua]

To dismiss Elliot as just nuts is to miss a whole lot. He was not some raving lunatic spouting random nonsense, but a cold, calculating, and hateful killer who went about his business with vindictive purpose.
Writing him off as nothing more than a wacko fails to realize the damage these so-called "nice guys" can wreak. Which is why I said he was the ultimate version of them.

you don't have to be babbling in a corner to be considered a whacko or a loony. manson, bundy, dahmer, etc were all complete whackos, and they were more calculating than this dumbass.
it's not uncommon for sociopaths to be calulating and cold. that's practially defining characteristics of them. doesn't mean they aren't whackos, loonies, insane, or etc.

frankly, if "whacko" is a fitting descriptor for someone like Gacy, then this dude should fall under the "whacko" heading as well.

[Jester]

I agree that Rodger was insane in the common definition of the word. You gotta be nuts to do what he did. I just don't want people chalking his actions up to "he was a loony" and dismissing them, as there was some dangerous precedent behind his actions, as detailed previously.

Gacy, Dahmer, Manson, and others were all clearly insane as we commonly define the word, but they were not legally insane: they clearly knew what they were doing, and that what they were doing was wrong as society defined it. As did Rodger. Is he in their little club! Absofuckinglutely.

[Gilhelmi]

22 is not that bad. I am 30 and a virgin.

Of course, that is my choice (and my religious preference). Also, I am not the most social, and have a hard time going out to meet people. Again though, All my choice.

People need to stop blaming others, and realizes that 70% of the time. They cause their own problems.

[Shangri-laschild]

They call themselves "Pick up artists" and convince themselves on how cool they are with women and how women who reject them are frigid bitches who deserve to die.

I don't know that I approve of the whole pick up artist thing. It's using psychology to maneuver someone into bed. Granted, to me it's on the same level as women using their bodies to con men into things. But I will say that not all pick up artists or even pick up artist culture is like that. There are plenty who are more of the mindset that hey, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's a numbers game and so more attempts equals more results. I've watched some of the videos by the guy who had the pick up artist tv show. While plenty of it felt skeezy, he wasn't exactly wrong about why some things work better than others and there was no malice really on those who rejected the guys. It was mostly centered on how the guy could have done it better or how sometimes that's how it goes. Hahaha and now I feel slightly dirty for having pointed all that out but as much as I didn't like the idea, I did have to admit that it wasn't exactly what I figured it was.

Please note, none of any of that was me justifying guys who think they have a right to women or who think women owe them or anyone who uses pick up artist stuff in that light.