Mother Dies In Jail Over Unpaid Truancy Fines.

[Rageaholic]

http://news.yahoo.com/mom-died-jail-...140636967.html

I don't even know where to begin with this. There are so many things wrong here. The ridiculousness of truancy laws, the ridiculouslness of debtors prison, the fact that the jail staff most likely withheld medicine from the mom, resulting in her death. There is no excuse for this shit, absolutely no excuse.

[lordlundar]

I don't even know where to begin with this.

How about the truth instead of a stilted perspective?

The ridiculousness of truancy laws

I agree truancy laws are at best outdated. Where's the civil discourse to have them changed?

the ridiculouslness of debtors prison

This is not a case of debtor's prison. Misdemeanors are a case of either fines and/or time served. It's to ensure the convicted understand there's some consequence for their actions.

the fact that the jail staff most likely withheld medicine from the mom, resulting in her death.

Do you have any, I don't know, actual PROOF of this claim of yours? Didn't think so.

Honestly Rage, you really need to stop trolling for "abuse of power" stories to fuel your confirmation bias. It's getting annoying.

[Greenday]

Do you have any, I don't know, actual PROOF of this claim of yours? Didn't think so.

I found one site that said the prison officials admitted they gave her no medication, but that was it. Came from a site that is dedicated to trying to make the system look super corrupt so I take that with a grain of salt.

[Rageaholic]

Do you have any, I don't know, actual PROOF of this claim of yours? Didn't think so.

FTFA

A cause of death is still to be determined, but law enforcement officials didn’t give DiNino the high blood pressure medication she needed

Of course it's not proof, but it might explain why she died.

Honestly Rage, you really need to stop trolling for "abuse of power" stories to fuel your confirmation bias. It's getting annoying.

Didn't even have to search hard to find this one. It was posted on another forum.

As for my comfirmation bias, it's not so much confirmation bias, but realizing that the system is far from perfect. I'm not a conspiracy nut (and I whole heartily apologize if I come across that way), but when you read so many news stories about this kind of shit happening, you start to get cynical.

[TheHuckster]

For what it's worth, I think this story is worth discussing. Not as an example of how terrible every police officer is, but as an example of how the system isn't perfect, and sometimes even can kill innocent people. If they jailed someone for truancy and withheld her medication to the point of death, then something criminal happened IMO, and we need to put whoever was behind it in front of a judge.

That being said...

As for my comfirmation bias, it's not so much confirmation bias, but realizing that the system is far from perfect. I'm not a conspiracy nut (and I whole heartily apologize if I come across that way), but when you read so many news stories about this kind of shit happening, you start to get cynical.

For every one news story about this happening, there are many more stories about police officers serving justice which do not get as much attention in the media. I agree the system is far from perfect. I don't think anyone here has ever tried to claim otherwise. However, I've been reading your posts for a while, and it really seems as though you believe the vast majority of cops (and many others in any position of authority) are power-hungry sadistic oppressors who don't deserve any respect.

The position of police officer is a very tough job. You have to deal with some of the most terrible people on earth, and one of the ways to do that is to be overbearing and a little bit of an asshole. Sometimes that demeanor rubs off to people who don't deserve it, and sometimes it goes further than that and they let that demeanor take over their job and turn them into oppressors. But, it doesn't happen to every police officer, and most chose their job because they want to help people, not because they want to oppress them.

[s_stabeler]

I will point out that one reason why you never hear about police officers doing their jobs properly is because it just plain isn't (normally) newsworthy. "cop arrests drunk dumbass who was mooning him" won't sell papers. "cop beats up X year old who was mooning him", on the other hand...( amusingly enough, both articles could be about the same incident- after all, police using a truncheon could easily be described as "beating up" someone. Or, of course, can easily actually beat someone up. It also means that the media usually put the most controversial slant on something.

back to the article. 1) the woman was imprisoned for two days. it isn't unreasonable if she refused to pay ( rather than couldn't pay, which it seems was what happened.) 2) why are parents being brought up on charges seemingly as a first resort? It occurs to me that a) if anyone should be imprisoned, it's the kid, not the parents and b) imprisoning parents should really be for cases where the parents are actively helping the kid bunk off school.

all the same though, if the prison actively denied blood pressure medication, someone needs to go to prison.

[TheHuckster]

I will point out that one reason why you never hear about police officers doing their jobs properly is because it just plain isn't (normally) newsworthy.

I'll be the first to agree with you there. I'm sick of people who get all ranty because the news reports unusual or significant events rather than the mundane stuff. Although, even then, many local newspapers do have a "police blotter" that do reveal some of those mundane events.

[s_stabeler]

true enough- but those aren't usually designed to make a profit.

it's also why it's a bad idea to take news articles at face value. They are NEVER the full story. At the very least, they put a spin on things.

[Jester]

I don't think the problem here is cops, per se. True, if the officials at the jail did withhold this woman's medication, they should be held accountable.

But that would not have happened if the woman had not been in jail in the first place. Which she would not have been if the law in place had not allowed for a parent of a truant child to be arrested for unpaid fines.

As the article pointed out--and numerous other articles and studies on this and similar subjects throughout the years have as well--laws like this unfairly target and affect lower income families. It is not debtor's prison, no, but is it really that far a cry from it?

Look, we don't know the woman's circumstances. We know she had seven kids, many of which skipped school, we know she was unemployed, we know she was staying at friends' houses, and we know she was taking high blood pressure medication. And we know that she died in jail.

What we don't know is if she was a woman who, because of the economy, found herself without a means of support for her family, and was at her wit's end trying to get her kids to get to school, or if she was a drugged out crack whore neglecting her children and letting them run wild, and thumbing her nose at the system when she was cited for it.

My guess is that she was like many of us, somewhere in between the angelic and devilish extremes.

Laws like this exist for a number of reasons, and it's my belief that a lot of those reasons are directly tied to the growing income disparity in this country, and the fact that so many people, wealthy or middle class, look down on those who are not, in their opinion, "pulling their weight," whether or not those casting judgment know anything about those people's circumstances.

Which, for a "Christian nation," seems rather un-Christ like to me.

[s_stabeler]

personally, I think imprisoning someone for not paying s fine should be tied to IF they can pay. If they are refusing to pay, then imprisoning them is fine. If it's a chop ice between paying the fine or putting food on the table? have some sympathy for them.

[Jester]

Agreed. I believe the legal term is mitigating circumstances.

[Rageaholic]

But that would not have happened if the woman had not been in jail in the first place. Which she would not have been if the law in place had not allowed for a parent of a truant child to be arrested for unpaid fines.

I even think punishing kids for truancy is out of line, but if someone has to be punished, it shouldn't be the parents (unless they are deliberatly keeping the kid home).

As the article pointed out--and numerous other articles and studies on this and similar subjects throughout the years have as well--laws like this unfairly target and affect lower income families. It is not debtor's prison, no, but is it really that far a cry from it?

Thank you

This is what I've been trying to say.

Laws like this exist for a number of reasons, and it's my belief that a lot of those reasons are directly tied to the growing income disparity in this country, and the fact that so many people, wealthy or middle class, look down on those who are not, in their opinion, "pulling their weight," whether or not those casting judgment know anything about those people's circumstances.

Which, for a "Christian nation," seems rather un-Christ like to me.

lol do not get me started

[BlaqueKatt]

At one point during my lovely foray in the state-run foster care system, there were kids dropped off at school, that would walk in the front doors and continue right out the back doors. Short of armed guards or chaining them to their desks NOTHING could prevent their truancy. They were actually removed from their homes for truancy, and foster care was actually no better, but the parents were blamed and painted as "bad parents" because the kids were truant.

[Gravekeeper]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the part where it mentions the LAPD use to just wait outside schools to ticket kids. Hell, I'm trying to wrap my head around why the police are involved in the front line of this at all.

I guess its the all mighty dollar at work. -.-

[Panacea]

This is not a case of debtor's prison. Misdemeanors are a case of either fines and/or time served. It's to ensure the convicted understand there's some consequence for their actions.

Having worked as a correctional nurse for three years, I can tell you that jail time for this kind of crap is the biggest waste of money our legal system has come up with. It costs more to incarcerate people for this kind of bullshit than they owe in fines.

Want truancy fines to have teeth? Sentence them to community service, not jail. Jail should be for violent offenders, not petty shit like this.

On top of that, how about addressing why the kid was truant in the first place. Punitive reactive policies don't fix the problems of why kids skip school.

As for the medication issue; I find it very believable. I do work as a legal nurse consultant, and a majority of my cases involve exactly this kind of issue. A lot of jails have a paucity of trained staff, staff who often fail to recognize serious medical conditions that should bar people from being admitted into the jail in the first place, or to ensure they are taking medications they should be taking. If they have standing orders, they are inappropriately applied or ignored. The attending physician is not called or consulted.

Jail/prison is the last place you want to be if you have a serious health issue. It runs the very serious risk of making a petty sentence a death sentence.