Kid Stabs Bully To Death: Could be tried as an adult.

[Greenday]

“They were after him for three months, and they couldn’t find him because he stayed behind closed doors,” Poulos told reporters, including WCBS 880′s Jim Smith. “He came out of closed doors, and they sicced on him.”

“We do know that five to seven different times they came to his apartment, tried to knock down the door, told him he was dead … and they urinated on the door,” Poulos said, 1010 WINS’ Carol D’Auria reported. “The super had to keep cleaning up urine from these kids.”

IF this is true, and IF the kid sought aduklt help and was ignored,as sometimes happens, than I think this is grounds for a knifing.

Uh, if this is true, why hadn't he called the police all that time? It's a clear open and shut case of assault.

[Canarr]

"I punched him because he showed me a knife!" said no one ever.

How about

"He pulled a knife on me, so I hit him before he could stab me!"

or maybe

"I feared for my life when I saw the knife, so I acted in self-defense and punched him!"

?

[Hyena Dandy]

Uh, if this is true, why hadn't he called the police all that time? It's a clear open and shut case of assault.

Because scared kids do not always act like perfectly rational adults.

[protege]

Because scared kids do not always act like perfectly rational adults.

Also, many times, cops don't want to get involved with it. To them, it's waste of their time--it's just one person's word against another. They'll see it as "kids will be kids" and that's it.

When my youngest brother was getting roughed up at school, we didn't call the cops. Instead, I took care of it. That is, I picked up the little shit by his shirt, slammed him against the wall, and said that if he didn't leave my brother alone, I'd fuck him up. Kid apologized, and that was the end of it.

[Jester]

I've said many times before that the best way to deal with a bully is to strike back at the bully, and to do so quickly, viciously, and brutally. THIS is not what I meant. In my case, I struck back three times in my childhood/teen years, and in all three instances, I did so with my own hands. Sure, the third time did involve a car trunk, it only because I slammed the guy's head into it with my own hands.

Without knowing more about the case, I cannot say this was or was not self-defense. It is certainly not clear cut, as reports seem to indicate the knifer was being pummeled by the knifee before the knifing. I do believe, though, that unless this is somehow shown to be premeditated murder, he should not be tried as an adult.

And by the way, his bringing the knife to school may indicate premeditation, but that does not indicate premeditated murder. One may plan in advance to defend oneself if need be. I don't know why he felt like he needed a knife, but I have talked to people whose attempts to strike back at their tormentors were not as successful as my own, and that may have been the case here; he may have felt the other kid was just too physically superior for him for him to have any chance without a weapon. He may have even tried striking back physically prior to the knifing.

Again, we don't have enough information for any of us to make any simple, easy judgments.

[Rageaholic]

And by the way, his bringing the knife to school may indicate premeditation, but that does not indicate premeditated murder. One may plan in advance to defend oneself if need be. I don't know why he felt like he needed a knife, but I have talked to people whose attempts to strike back at their tormentors were not as successful as my own, and that may have been the case here; he may have felt the other kid was just too physically superior for him for him to have any chance without a weapon. He may have even tried striking back physically prior to the knifing.

That's what I think, he wasn't strong enough to fight back physically so he brought a weapon to make sure he wouldn't get pummeled. Frankly, if the asshole bully hadn't kept on attacking him, than he wouldn't have had to resort to bringing the weapon in the first place.

Yeah yeah, he could have done something else, but at this point, it's hard to give a damn about the bully when he was attacking this kid for months.

[Greenday]

That's what I think, he wasn't strong enough to fight back physically so he brought a weapon to make sure he wouldn't get pummeled. Frankly, if the asshole bully hadn't kept on attacking him, than he wouldn't have had to resort to bringing the weapon in the first place.

Yeah yeah, he could have done something else, but at this point, it's hard to give a damn about the bully when he was attacking this kid for months.

Sounds like the kind of logic school shooters use.

[Rageaholic]

Sounds like the kind of logic school shooters use.

We're not talking about mass murder, we're talking about a kid defending himself against an attacker. Had he brought a gun to school, I'd be agreeing, but he didn't; he brought a knife. The only person harmed was the one who attacked him.

[MadMike]

Sounds like the kind of logic school shooters use.

School shooters take out a bunch of innocent people. This kid simply defended himself, and harmed no one but the bully. Apples and oranges.

[Greenday]

School shooters take out a bunch of innocent people. This kid simply defended himself, and harmed no one but the bully. Apples and oranges.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

[Gravekeeper]

If you harass someone to the point where they try to hang themselves....

And for the record, the bully attacked him first. He punched him then kneed him in the face. Then he got stabbed. Also, the police were called several times about the whole following him home, pissing on his door, etc. They would come and the kids would leave but the police declined to do anything further. The family also repeatedly sought help from the police and school, neither did anything.

This also apparently started over an iPhone, which the victim had borrowed but his mother lost/broke.

Its further worth pointing out that the victim is special needs and has tourette's and a speech impediment. Two things they mercilessly mocked him for ( along with calling him gay, etc and the usual shit ).

But for the ultimate dick move: It was Children's Services that ordered his parents to send him back to school after he released from hospital after his suicide attempt.

This seems like a complete, total and utter fucking failure of every single adult in a position of authority around this kid that led to this.

[NecCat]

I have several problems with the concept of juvenile court, juvenile records etc and am usually against that route. This kid however, trying him as an adult just seems like a continuation of the failure on the part of everyone who is supposed to be helping him.

He wasn't, not once in this whole sad saga, treated like an adult.

If I, as an adult, was being subjected to harassment from another adult in the form of repeatedly pounding on my door, calling me out, pissing on my house, being followed around, assaulted, actual continuing death threats, the police would absolutely be issuing at a bare minimum a restraining order. There would probably be an actual investigation. Charges may be laid against the person/people harassing me. If the perpetrator broke the restraining order there would be consequences. This kid got nothing except to be told 'they are just kids'. It's no big deal, kids will be kids, they'll sort it out, they all do eventually and nothing bad ever happens right?

If I, as an adult, was so harassed and bullied at work that I missed several months and actually attempted suicide to escape the harassment there is no way I would be forced to go back to work (and he was absolutely forced to return to school) until at the very least the perpetrators were fired or sent to another location. The labour board, human rights board, whoever else would have been fighting for me every step of the way, they would have stepped in, and it would have been treated very seriously. This kid on the other hand was told to return, nothing was done to help or protect him. He's just a kid, kids have to go to school, that's for the best, right?

After denying this kid the avenues of protection and rights that are available to adults, to then hold him to a standard of behaviour that adults are expected to demonstrate and charge him as one is absolutely shameful.

[Jester]

Well said, though you missed one small but important point.

If you as an adult had all that happening to you, PLUS the harassers were also physically assaulting you periodically, as this boy apparently was, the police would treat it as an assault case, over and above the harassment charges.

[NecCat]

Well said, though you missed one small but important point...

Fair enough. I'm sticking by the rest of my statements though.

[Rageaholic]

Its further worth pointing out that the victim is special needs and has tourette's and a speech impediment. Two things they mercilessly mocked him for ( along with calling him gay, etc and the usual shit ).

But for the ultimate dick move: It was Children's Services that ordered his parents to send him back to school after he released from hospital after his suicide attempt.

Wow, the situation was already fucked up enough and now child services basically forced him to go to school. This should eliminate any doubt that this was NOT a premeditated murder. He was being forced to go to the very place where he knew he'd be attacked. The same place where the authorities would do nothing for the kid, leaving him on his own. But when he takes an action, he gets in trouble. There is no way around this, the fuckers prosecuting him are siding with the POS bully.

But even if he wasn't forced to go to school, he still has the right to defend himself against on going assault.

I don't see how anyone with any empathy or common sense would want to prosecute this kid.