Pedophile Meets Angry Daddy

[catcul]

A dad caught an 18-year-old man molesting the dad's 11-year-old son. Daddy proceeds to beat the tar out of this monster, then calls police to collect the unconscious molester. This guy will probably spend a lot of time in solitary confinement.

Police: Fla. father beats accused child abuser

[Rageaholic]

"He is nice and knocked out on the floor for you," the father told the 911 dispatcher. "I drug him out to the living room."

When asked by the 911 dispatcher if any weapons were involved, the father said "my foot and my fist."

Some classic lines right here.

Glad dad's not being charged with anything.

[s_stabeler]

In a case like this, the dad being charged is more or less irrelevant- I highly doubt any jury would convict.

[blas87]

Call me a monster or whatever you want, but this is just beautiful. Just beautiful.

[protege]

Blas, you're not a monster. I too would have beat the shit out of the guy.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Not that this has anything to do with anything that will actually happen.

But would people feel the same IF the beating was taken into account and legally had to mandate a reduced sentence?

It just popped into my brain, but the main reason a victim's relative is not allowed to dispense justice is because that's the court's job and now any sentence this man gets is technically Prison time + sanctioned physical battery.

I've always found the treatment of the crime fascinating in what I know about the researched biology of it added to what is often the complete justification of anything that happens to them after they're caught.

[s_stabeler]

I wouldn't feel any different about the fact he beat the crap out of the guy. I WOULD feel that such a law is absolutely idiotic, however- it makes a mockery of self-defense, because it puts it on the same level as the original crime. We have enough trouble with "if you fight back, you are as bad as them" in bullying.


Conversely, IF someone was beaten up while actually in custody, then yeah, I'd feel OK with a reduced sentence.

[smileyeagle1021]

In a case like this, the dad being charged is more or less irrelevant- I highly doubt any jury would convict.

Not to mention, no prosecutor is going to take the case seriously.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

I wouldn't feel any different about the fact he beat the crap out of the guy. I WOULD feel that such a law is absolutely idiotic, however- it makes a mockery of self-defense, because it puts it on the same level as the original crime. We have enough trouble with "if you fight back, you are as bad as them" in bullying.


Conversely, IF someone was beaten up while actually in custody, then yeah, I'd feel OK with a reduced sentence.

My point was not about the beating of the man leading to the prosecution of the father.

My point was, would people be as OK with it if it actually reduced the sentence of the the offender. It's hard to not sound like I'm defending the guy, but say he's given the same sentence as another pedophile. Was his crime proportionally worse that savage beating plus same jail time is justified.

I don't think it would take much proof in reality to show the father was beyond self defense in this case (in the same way the NYC cops and the gentle giant is a story of disproportionate force.) In the end, I tend to be a rule of law and justice guy so I don't view the law as an opportunity for society to do heinous shit to some people because they did heinous shit. I think when you turn the law into that, that's when you see some of its worst historical excesses.

[s_stabeler]

First of all, I don't actually thing excessive force was actually used- it sounds like the father beat the paedophile unconscious, which, considering the father probably had no way to restrain the pedophile, sounds about right for the amount of force necessary.

Second, you ARE essentially saying the father should be punished for defending his kid- by saying the pedophile should be given a lesser sentence. You are conflating the father's actions with someone deciding to come up to the pedophile and beating them up- which, to be honest? makes me extremely angry. Those attitudes got me into trouble each and every time I tried to do anything but let bullies chip away at my self-esteem.

Also, to turn your argument around: Does that mean that if you get the crap beaten out of you by someone, you can molest their kids and get a lesser punishment?

I'm sorry if this post seems angry, but this is a bit of a trigger issue for me- I've had far too many cases where standing up to bullies has resulted in the bullies let off scot-free while I was punished. (No, it was never physical- just telling the bullies to shut up sometimes landed me in detention for disrupting the class)

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

First of all, I don't actually thing excessive force was actually used- it sounds like the father beat the paedophile unconscious, which, considering the father probably had no way to restrain the pedophile, sounds about right for the amount of force necessary.

Second, you ARE essentially saying the father should be punished for defending his kid- by saying the pedophile should be given a lesser sentence. You are conflating the father's actions with someone deciding to come up to the pedophile and beating them up- which, to be honest? makes me extremely angry. Those attitudes got me into trouble each and every time I tried to do anything but let bullies chip away at my self-esteem.

Also, to turn your argument around: Does that mean that if you get the crap beaten out of you by someone, you can molest their kids and get a lesser punishment?

I'm sorry if this post seems angry, but this is a bit of a trigger issue for me- I've had far too many cases where standing up to bullies has resulted in the bullies let off scot-free while I was punished. (No, it was never physical- just telling the bullies to shut up sometimes landed me in detention for disrupting the class)

On the first score, he admits to kicking and punching. Dunno if that's appropriate force. I'm sure a medical examiner would know but I don't. The theoretical is taking from this case but I'm not marrying it to this case. I'm more concerned if it was force above and beyond subduing the guy which I'd be inclined to believe is very possible in this case though.

That is, does society get a "get out of jail free card" to punish twice by sanctioning the beating of a man (who I'll give the benefit of the doubt in this case is almost certainly guilty) and then punishing him in a normal way. Cruel and unusual.

Re: conflating. Actually no... I'm not conflating anything. I'm only looking at the offender by himself. If he receives a normal sentence he didn't JUST get the normal sentence. He got the sentence and a savage beating that wasn't prosecuted. The father is not punished, rather his actions are factored into sentencing. So that's my point, are WE ok with beating a guy if it actually had a legal consequence since arguably this pedophile is punished more (he'll get what the others do) but he gets extra. I'm looking at him only in relation to others like him. My hypothetical is are we ok with the dad IF the courts were actually forced to reduce sentence over it. This could also be applied to the concept of sentences in any crime being reduced over cruel and unusual police behavior by the way.

I don't see your turn it around as apples to apples. This case is Crime of A+Caught by B=Punish by B + Punish by C. Your example is Crime of B = Crime of A + Less Punishment. I see where you're getting it but parsing that legally would be easier than this case. A is going to be prosecuted. B will most certainly be prosecuted and B will almost certainly use A's crime in an attempt to get any sympathy they can unsuccessfully because the crime he committed is the one that frankly judges and juries are prone to be against by default anyway.

I get the anger thing and this really isn't meant to be an enraging post (I can see it that way, but its not meant that way.) It's the same thing I think when people are beaten within an inch of their lives by cops and that has no effect on sentencing. This topic though I think is a great time to look at it because no one I know feels sorry for the offender. But justice is about rules and consistency. If people are not consistent on the least of us, it's not a wonder the kind of enrage inducing justice we see. Sanctioned arbitrary justice is pretty much the source of f'd up policing and jacked prisons. That's kinda why I threw out the tangent.

[Greenday]

On the first score, he admits to kicking and punching. Dunno if that's appropriate force.

What else could he have done that's less? Tickle him? It's not like he smashed his head in with a bat. The guy was raping his kid. Not flicking him or pinching him.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Actually head smashy with the bat might have been less (yes, I know that would have been assault with a deadly weapon but it could have met the same end more quickly with less damage). If you need to knock someone out, you're going to use concussive force. Not sure how you get to kicking AND punching if you're doing blows to the head primarily though.

[Greenday]

Person bends over, kick em right in the face. Jump kicks. It's really not that hard.

[Gravekeeper]

Well, the inherent problem with this case is that in the US this is basically considered the most heinous crime possible. It would seriously be considered less heinous if he had just murdered the victim. Viewed through that scope, it would be impossible for any kind of fair assessment of the situation. Once the P word gets applied to a male in the media, that's the end of it regardless of circumstances, guilt or innocence.

That aside, he beat the ever living shit out of him by all accounts. He admitted to beating him unconscious and using his foot, so he must have curb stomped him. Then dragged his body into the living room. The guy has wounds on his neck and the back of his head/scalp. In addition to the facial damage. The father freely admitted the only reason he didn't just beat him to death was because of his religious beliefs. There's no indication at all the guy fought back.

As I recall there was a similar case a while back where the father just shot the guy outright, and was not charged.