Ferguson, MO is a warzone.

[Herebecause]

Um, because someone coming at you with a knife is a threat to your life and is a valid reason to defend yourself with lethal force.

One of them could have tackled the guy from the side and just knocked him over. They had other options. Other countries are able to see and train their police to stop events like that in a manner that doesn't involve killing the person. Why can't we?

[Gravekeeper]

Um, because someone coming at you with a knife is a threat to your life and is a valid reason to defend yourself with lethal force.

Lethal force is your last resort, not your first option. Cops everywhere else, even in other states, seem completely capable of bringing down knife/axe/hammer wielding suspects without using lethal force. Often in closer quarters and with far more aggressive suspects.

Gunning down a mentally ill person that stole 2 sodas and waited on the sidewalk for you to arrive because he asked you too is not good police work. Nor is putting two rounds into him when he's already on the ground and handcuffing the corpse.

Thats just fucked up and shows a flagrant disregard for life.

[kaycivine]

I don't think Greenday's views will change on the subject. He/She (I believe He, but just to be safe) is so stuck on a particular path of thought, that any other plausible thought is just not possible to the reality one lives in. Now, when I say that I know it seems insulting, but it truly isn't meant to be. At least, not from me. Just the environment one was raised it, what one was taught to believe, question, or be open about, shows in how we handle our adult thoughts and actions.



I have a couple of police friends who are taking this to a similar point of view as Greenday, and they are so stuck in the belief that the police are the innocent party, outright denying attacking journalists and the like. This is more shocking to me, since I know them personally, but as I see who says what about this situation, it reveals the racists, anarchists, those who don't trust the government, and other ilk.


Maybe I'm rambling now, I do apologize

[Gravekeeper]

They finally released the incident report of the shooting annnnd it contains nothing except the officer's name, the victims name and that the victim died. Officer Wilson did not file a written report and the St Louis County PD declined to release the investigative component of the report where they interviewed him.

They've had the report the entire time but only just now approved it for release 10 days later. Despite the fact it contains literally nothing and no details at all.

Because that doesn't seem shady and will surely help quell the situation. -.-


Oh, and this gem has emerged:

Ferguson is a city located in northern St. Louis County with 21,203 residents living in 8,192 households. The majority (67%) of residents are African-American…22% of residents live below the poverty level. Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of $2,635,400. In 2013, the Ferguson Municipal Court disposed of 24,532 warrants and 12,018 cases, or about 3 warrants and 1.5 cases per household.

$321 in fines and fees and 3 warrants per household per year. And no, Ferguson does not have a high crime rate. Its crime rate is average.

[Greenday]

I have a couple of police friends who are taking this to a similar point of view as Greenday, and they are so stuck in the belief that the police are the innocent party, outright denying attacking journalists and the like. This is more shocking to me, since I know them personally, but as I see who says what about this situation, it reveals the racists, anarchists, those who don't trust the government, and other ilk.

Oh? I've said that the cops haven't attacked journalists? Please quote it. I dare you to find it. Because I know I've said the cops have tear gassed journalists who have gotten in the way. I've even acknowledged how stupid it is to threaten the journalists. I've just also pointed out that there could be more sides to the story than just "Fuck the police!".

As for shooting someone with mental issues that's trying to stab you, there's a super important part to it. The guy is still trying to stab you. He's trying to kill you. You know what happens if you try to tazer him and you fail? You get stabbed and possibly die. Pepper spray is not an option when someone is going lethal on you. You don't sit there and think out your options while someone is advancing on you. That's how you end up dead. When someone is trying to kill you, lethal force is always a valid self-defense option. It's not like they shot the guy from 100 feet away. The guy was only a couple steps away from the one cop.

[NecCat]

How are they justifying this?

I don't know how they are justifying it, or even if they can. It looks pretty brutal in the video. I do think they have some credibility though, in the sense that if they want to publish something that tries, I'll be willing to listen with an open mind.

The police didn't threaten the bystanders, or the people videoing the incident. They didn't confiscate the videos, point there gun at witnesses, or tell people to fuck off. The police asked them, reasonably politely, to back off. I assume they called it in (other police cars were there quickly), they put up police tape, to section off where people could/could not stand. They didn't even flinch when they saw the cameras.

I think the media tying this shooting in the what happened (is happening? it seems to be calming down) at Ferguson is inflammatory and misleading. These police were acting in a completely different manner than the shit show that was going on in Ferguson, with the Ferguson police refusing any public scrutiny, and they seem to be avoiding official scrutiny as well. The police I saw in this video do not seem to be systematically avoiding accountability.

[kaycivine]

Oh? I've said that the cops haven't attacked journalists? Please quote it. I dare you to find it.
.

I do apologize, I should have edited it to say that they themselves said it, but not you. My sincere apologies.

[SkullKing]

Oh? I've said that the cops haven't attacked journalists? Please quote it. I dare you to find it. Because I know I've said the cops have tear gassed journalists who have gotten in the way.

emphasis mine, many of the journalist were not "on the way", seems some were even in an area specifically set up for the press.

[Greenday]

emphasis mine, many of the journalist were not "on the way", seems some were even in an area specifically set up for the press.

I've read quite a few reports that the protesters are pulling a Hamas and using reporters as human shields.

[Hyena Dandy]

Human shields.

Against tear gas.

In the PRESS AREA.

A whole section of the city full of people whose job is "Saying things that happened," were used as human shields against a gaseous substance, and none of the people who, I will remind you, are paid and, in many cases, personally devoted to saying things that happened, have actually done their job about it. Or at least, not enough that the results for googling "Ferguson" and "Human shield" show anything about protestors using reporters as human shields.

You've gone past grasping at straws, hell, you're past gasping at thin air. You're grasping at a quantum vacuum!

[Gravekeeper]

As for shooting someone with mental issues that's trying to stab you, there's a super important part to it. The guy is still trying to stab you. He's trying to kill you. You know what happens if you try to tazer him and you fail? You get stabbed and possibly die.

Would you like me to start linking the countless Youtube videos of police not just in other countries but in other States successfully disarming knife/axe/hammer/sword wielding suspects with a tazer? At close quarters and against more aggressive suspects than the one in the video.=? Or would you like to keep preaching from your bubble? -.-

This is what happens when you try to stab a tazer.

The guy wasn't even threatening enough for pedestrians to avoid. He was shot at least 10 feet away, by two officers who had guns out before they even got out of the car. They shot 9 times including 2 rounds into him when he was already on the ground. Handcuffed the body. Then immediately released a statement saying the guy had attacked them with a knife with an "overhand stabbing motion". Which the video clearly shows is total bullshit.

The only thing they didn't do was sprinkle some crack on him afterwards.

Its bad enough that Amnesty International is on the police for it for a possible violation of international law.

I've read quite a few reports that the protesters are pulling a Hamas and using reporters as human shields.

You're dangerously close to "What colour is the sky in your world?" territory.

[Hyena Dandy]

The police finally released the incident report relating to Brown's death, with notable and illegal redactions. Including "What was the name of the guy who got shot." Or so I read, at least.

[Duelist925]

I've read quite a few reports that the protesters are pulling a Hamas and using reporters as human shields.

Citation please.

Name your sources.

Link us.

Please.

[Greenday]

Human shields.

Against tear gas.

In the PRESS AREA.

I didn't say the people doing it were the brightest.

Citation please.

Name your sources.

Link us.

Please.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/fergu...ice-1408506158

There's one from just a few days ago. Tough finding more since everything comes up with the Middle East.

[Gravekeeper]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/fergu...ice-1408506158

There's one from just a few days ago. Tough finding more since everything comes up with the Middle East.

So you've read quite a few reports but now can't find any of them but a throw away line in a Wall Street Journal article? There's no other mention of it anywhere on the Internet ( Well, except for a handful of nutjobs claiming Obama is directing the rioters under command of Hamas ).

Several agitated demonstrators attempted to use a huge press corps in their approved staging area as a human shield at the end of the night, complicating the police effort to clear the streets at the protest's apparent end.

Hiding in a crowd does not equal human shield.

Why are you always so blindly desperate to convince yourself the police are always right in any situation and protesters / victims are always wrong or did something to deserve the beating / shooting / etc they received? Even when repeatedly faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary?