Ferguson, MO is a warzone.

[Gravekeeper]

Am I the only one who has read about the riots? Convenience stores being smashed up and robbed. Other stores receiving the same treatment. Flipping cars.

The riot and looting occurred Sunday night. The 25 police department, 200-300 man paramiltary unit with assault rifles, body armour and armoured vehicles designed against landminds and IEDs showed up next day. And have been assaulting protesters, reporters and even a city councilmen without restraint ever since. They have specifically been targeting anyone with cameras and even swiped Al Jazeera/s camera equipment ( after shooting a tear gas grenade at their truck causing the crew to flee ).

This is a small town of about 21,000 people, this isn't some huge LA race riot. It certainly does not require a military response and police should NOT be capable of a military response. Let alone actively employ it at the drop of a hat when minorities are involved.

I'm sure the cops could ask nicely and that'll solve the problem.

A police officer's job is to DE-ESCALATE a situation, not blatantly escalate it by confronting peaceful protesters with automatic weapons, body armour and military camo.

Yes, IF that was the case. But here's the evidence we have so far:

Cop's story: He got attacked by the guy, guy reached for his gun, shot the guy in the middle of a fight

Friend's story: They were totally minding their own business, the cop yelled at them over total BS (believable), the cop pulled the guy to the car by grabbing him by the neck (less believable), the cop shot the guy at point black while he was on his knees (much less believable).

There were more witnesses than just the friend. This occurred in broad daylight in the middle of the street in a suburb. The other witnesses's accounts are in line with the friend's account. Also, you don't have either account right.

Both accounts agree that the first shot occurred in close range during an altercation by the officer's vehicle. You can argue the cause of the altercation as a point of contention between the officer and witnesses if you want. But it does not change the fact that the victim was shot several more times while fleeing from the officer. The friend and witnesses accounts all say he was fleeing and the officer continued to fire. The friend and witnesses agree that the victim had his arms up and pleaded that he was unarmed before being shot.

Both accounts agree that the officer rolled up on them for jaywalking.

Now which is more likely: Do you think an 18 year old just about to leave for college decided he'd just murder a cop all of a sudden over jaywalking? Or do you think an officer of the predominantly white local police force with a history of racial issues dealing with the local black community ( that called in a paramilitary response to small town civil unrest ) was being an asshole and escalated to lethal force because he was dealing with a black teenager?


Furthermore:

- The victim's body was face down, 35 feet from the officer's patrol car.
- He was shot at least 4 times ( The police will not say how many ).
- He was unarmed.
- The police have declined to interview the friend that was with him to get his witness testimony. Per that friend's attorney.
- The officer did not radio in a shooting nor did he call for EMS.
- Dispatch found out about the shooting from the news and had to ask the PD.
- His body was left in the street for 4 hours.
- It was eventually stuffed in the back of a police SUV. No EMS was ever called.
- The FBI and Department of Justice both launched investigations into the shooting.
- The St Louis County PD, who has been in command of this fuckfest, has just been removed from command by the state.

Does any of that sound like the police were doing a wonderful, appropriate job? I sincerely suggest you take some time to read into this. Because defending the people that just wiped their ass with your Constitution isn't reflecting well.

[patiokitty]

Y'know, it says a lot when a Canadian knows more about what is actually going on down in Ferguson than many Americans...

[Greenday]

Y'know, it says a lot when a Canadian knows more about what is actually going on down in Ferguson than many Americans...

Whoopdeedoo. It says nothing. It's some craphole in a state most people don't care about and no one pays attention to. It means someone has more free time than the other.

If some people on this forum want to focus on cops doing stupid stuff and ignore the group causing massive problems forcing the police to respond, I'm going to oblige and point out the massive destruction caused by the rioters.

[Ghel]

Whoopdeedoo. It says nothing. It's some craphole in a state most people don't care about and no one pays attention to.

Let me fix this for you: It's a poor, predominantly black suburb of St. Louis, surrounded by more affluent suburbs, in a state that has a history of racially-motivated incidents.

If some people on this forum want to focus on cops doing stupid stuff and ignore the group causing massive problems forcing the police to respond, I'm going to oblige and point out the massive destruction caused by the rioters.

I feel obliged to point out that this is not an isolated incident. Unarmed young men of color are shot by police about once every 2-3 days in the US. It was only a matter of time before a community stood up to the racist authoritarians entrusted with "protecting" them.

[Canarr]

That still really doesn't explain why the police would fire teargas canisters at a trio of reporters, then dismantle their equipment. Or arrest reporters sitting in a McDonalds. Were they, too, rioting and looting?

[Greenday]

Let me fix this for you: It's a poor, predominantly black suburb of St. Louis, surrounded by more affluent suburbs, in a state that has a history of racially-motivated incidents.

I'm glad you brought that up. I remember seeing some statement by a black woman complaining that 2/3 of the people arrested in that town are black and how that's not fair! Except for the fact that the town is 70% black so it's not shocking at all.

[patiokitty]

There have been a lot of questionable acts taken by the so-called authorities in Ferguson MO - acts that have lead to the populace uprising in the first place. If they hadn't taken the tack that persons of colour did not deserve the same sort of respect as white people then this wouldn't be blowing up like it has. They left that poor boy's body in the fucking street for four hours because the cop that shot him didn't give a flying fuck about him. The cops there do not care about the people they are trying to protect - they are just throwing around their 'power' and punishing people who question them in any way. As for what they are doing with the media, it is pretty damn clear that they are targeting members of the media in order to prevent the truth from coming out about the situation.

The original aggressor in this incidence was the cop who shot the kid. The obvious lack of response from the police force only compounded the outrage.

[Greenday]

The original aggressor in this incidence was the cop who shot the kid. The obvious lack of response from the police force only compounded the outrage.

The first part, we don't know. I don't trust the sources as they are cop haters.

The second, what do you want them to do? People are threatening the life of the cop without knowing any facts of the incident. Why should they name him? So some thugs can commit street justice? Until the cop is on trial, no wrongdoing has been committed by the cops (as far as the original incident goes).

[SkullKing]

someone on the escapist forums(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/foru...guson-Missouri) linked this statistics:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...rguson-killing

does anyone know if they are true?

[SkullKing]

Certain groups are getting caught in the crossfire (Journalists, etc.). But it's not the police who are putting them in harm's way. Journalists do it to themselves and good people cannot help that these morons keep antagonizing the police.

Sorry Greenday but you are a bit mistaken, this is not journalists getting into crossfire, this is journalists been directly targeted:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu_uJoEIEAEkNgJ.jpg

I understand your reluctance to believe, since many people are very quick to blame the police.

there are violent rioters, true, but the fact that the police made no distincion between those being violent and those protesting peacefully, and that they specifically target journalist, seem to be fairly clear.

[Gravekeeper]

Whoopdeedoo. It says nothing. It's some craphole in a state most people don't care about and no one pays attention to. It means someone has more free time than the other.

Yet being woefully ill informed of the situation isn't keeping you from jumping in and trying to defend the flatly wrong narrative you're arguing for.

If some people on this forum want to focus on cops doing stupid stuff and ignore the group causing massive problems forcing the police to respond, I'm going to oblige and point out the massive destruction caused by the rioters.

Dude, seriously, what do you think this is? This wasn't the LA race riots. "Massive destruction"?. It was 12 stores a a few cars and the looters numbered in the tens. It also occurred on Sunday night. The massive paramilitary deployment and subsequent total fuckery began AFTER that on Monday.

Also, utterly regardless of rioting, the police should NOT be deploying military force as the go too response to civil unrest. They're more heavily geared than US patrols in Iraq and Afghanistan. They're even wearing fucking desert camo. In the middle of a suburban neighbourhood. They couldn't resist coming out to play dress up soldier and it backfired spectacularly.

You do not confront civil unrest with military force. Didn't your country learn that in the fucking 60s? These idiots have no training and no plan in regards to using the military equipment they have. And it is military equipment. Its surplus coming back from Iraq that they've been gleefully buying up. Because policing a town of 21,000 people in America requires a vehicle capable of sustain IED attacks.

But here, let me just start quoting from the US military manual for handling civil unrest and you can just read along till you hopefully realize how resoundingly mishandled this entire situation has been. While keeping in mind these fuckwits have all of the equipment of the military, but none of the training.

Community unrest results in urban conflicts that arise from highly emotional social and economic issues. Economically deprived residents may feel that they are treated unjustly or ignored by people in power and authority. Tensions can build quickly in a community over a variety of issues, such as hunger, poor employment opportunities, inadequate community services, poor housing, and labor issues. Tensions in these areas create the potential for violence. When tensions are high, it takes a small (seemingly minor) incident, rumor, or perceived act of injustice to ignite groups within a crowd to riot and act violently. This is particularly true if community relations with authorities are strained.

Commanders must be aware of the possibility that some individuals or groups within an organized demonstration may intend to cause disruption, incite violence, destroy property, and provoke authorities. The situation and actions of the crowd may dictate control and enforcement options. Agitators and criminal infiltrators within the crowd can lead to the eruption of violence. Inciting a crowd to violence or a greater intensity of violence by using severe enforcement tactics must be avoided.

Significant ethnic differences in a community can create an atmosphere of distrust, even hatred. Unrest among ethnic groups competing for jobs, living areas, and sparse essentials can cause an eruption of civil disorder that can lead to full riots. As emotions run high, violence becomes likely.

Coercion dispersal is caused by a use of force on some level. This is not necessarily the best way to disperse a crowd. The negotiated management of crowds is the preferred method and has proven to be highly successful in getting crowd organizers to police themselves especially if the demonstration or protest leaders are available and willing to participate.

Panic can erupt quickly, especially when crowds turn into mobs. Individuals within the mob can easily sense that their safety and well-being are at risk. This puts crowd members in a fight-or-flight situation. The use of riot control agents (RCAs) by authorities adds to the panic and confusion. Individuals in a mob may attempt to leave the area, and then they may find that there are no escape routes and the roads are blocked. This can often lead to violent physical attacks.

Crowd management requires its own thought process. Emphasis should be on prevention rather than confrontation. In combat, military forces are taught to fight and eliminate threats. In crowd control, military forces must deal with noncombatants that have recognized rights; these rights must be respected while maintaining public order.

Avoid Confrontation
Crowd situations are highly unpredictable, but history has proven that confrontation will most likely cause crowd resistance. When pushed, people tend to resist opposition to the realization of their purposes.

Should I stop there or do you need anymore? I'm only 1/4th the way through the manual.

[Greenday]

someone on the escapist forums(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/foru...guson-Missouri) linked this statistics:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...rguson-killing

does anyone know if they are true?

So in a town that's mostly black, it's mostly black people being stopped? That sounds...reasonable.

As for the makeup of the police force and local government, how many black people have actually attempted to join either?

[Hyena Dandy]

So in a town that's mostly black, it's mostly black people being stopped? That sounds...reasonable.

That is.

But it's still disproportionate. According to the statistics I've seen, it should be about two black people arrested for every white one. Instead, it's closer to four.

[lordlundar]

That is.

But it's still disproportionate. According to the statistics I've seen, it should be about two black people arrested for every white one. Instead, it's closer to four.

The ones in the link provided put it at over 13 to 1.

Now if we were talking about South Africa that would be a closer to accurate rate, but not for Furgeson county.

[Gravekeeper]

So in a town that's mostly black, it's mostly black people being stopped? That sounds...reasonable.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? 60% black vs 92% of searches? Even though white people were more likely to carry contraband? Also they arrested the one black city councilman they found because he was filming them.

Sorry, but this whole situation is indefensible and I'm honestly growing appalled that you continue to do so. When you clearly don't care enough to bother to actually find out anything about the situation.