Ferguson, MO is a warzone.

[Gravekeeper]

The indictment is just to decide if someone MIGHT have done something. Not getting an indictment is rare.

It's insanely rare. To the point where the only way a grand jury wouldn't indict is if the prosecutor ( hint hint ) didn't want an indictment. Seeing as the prosecutor was acting like the defense for fark sakes...

[s_stabeler]

yeah... I don't know the truth of what happened, but something stinks. Personally? I think there is a case to answer- which is the criteria for a indictment.

On the other hand, that doesn't give any excuse for the rioting.

[EricKei]

Never mind that the smirking fuck gave a 45+ minute speech blaming everything on the media or that he decided to release the decision at 8pm at night for prime rioting time or something.

AFAIK, the Grand Jury handed down their decision something like *six hours* before the press conference made the announcement. It just gave the assembled masses time to get that much angrier and more frustrated. They all knew this was coming, and delaying the announcement just allowed the news networks to have a a major event happen during prime time.

It seemed to me that the delay may have been called for by pressure from certain media channels (did ya notice that the end of press conference and Obama's remarks just happened to come at around halftime of Monday Night Football?). After all, it means more viewers/bigger audience -- and, because it allowed the crowd more time to stew in their own juices, more likelihood that something bad/violent would happen. People gathered who may or may not be looking for trouble + 6 hours of crowding and impatience = higher stress and lower patience.

As they say in the news business (full disclosure: that includes me, via print media): "If it bleeds, it leads." They WANTED something nasty to cover. They'll feed off of this for weeks.

It's insanely rare.

Truth. It's also exceedingly rare (something like 3% in the US, iirc) for a case to even get that far without a Guilty or Nolo Contendre plea. That other 97%? I do believe the prosecutors include those in their success rates...

On the other hand, that doesn't give any excuse for the rioting.

Agreed.

Yeah, it's pretty sad. It was obvious that many in the crowd came spoiling for a fight -- they just wanted an excuse. Kinda like when Chicago won bigtime back in the 90's...There was gonna be a riot either way, all it came down to was "riot because we're happy" or "riot because we're pissed." People had rocks and bottles and stuff ready to roll as soon as the word came down. Some looting, fires, vandalism, and an overturned police car, too.

On the upside, at least a small number of demonstrators were trying to get others to calm the fuck down. an exercise in futility, but hey, they tried. The victim's family echoed that sentiment; they said they were disappointed, but asked people to avoid violence. Good luck there.

Oddly enough, this is kinda sorta how the Trayvon thing (perhaps) should have gone -- IIRC, the chief down there openly stated from the beginning that he felt that they didn't have enough evidence to go to trial, let alone to convict (of course, I could be mistaken - mea culpa if so) -- which, we are being told, the case was here. The difference in Florida was, someone forced the issue anyway, and the trial itself had the inevitable result.

I suppose we'll have to put up with a shitload of armchair lawyering for the next few weeks, because of this (the evidence was released after the press conference -- probably heavily redacted, tho).

I did notice which reporters got to go where -- just as it is during hurricanes, the veteran reporters are "in the area" but nowhere near the actual event, while the newbies are the poor fuckers having to stand on the damn beachhead as a cow flies by with a WTF?! look on its face...

[Gravekeeper]

Lisa Bloom is having a field day with this.

Christ, just look at this bullshit.

[Panacea]

I have to admit some surprise over there not being an indictment. Whether or not there should have been a conviction, it seems undoubtable to me that there's enough reason to bring it before a jury. The indictment is just to decide if someone MIGHT have done something. Not getting an indictment is rare.

The only person who gets to talk to the grand jury is the prosecutor. They have absolute discretion in what to present to the grand jury. They can, and usually do, only present that evidence that tends to point to guilt, and ignore evidence that tends to acquit the defendant. That's why indictments are so common. The grand jury can only work with what they're given.

In a trial, evidence not given to the grand jury can and is submitted by the defense attorney. That's why a grand jury indictment has to be taken with a grain of salt. The only purpose is to determine if a trial should be held, and the game is rigged against the defendant.

This case was extraordinary. The DA decided to present every bit of evidence he had to the grand jury, and even more extra ordinary to release the testimony to the public.

I am not surprised there was no indictment. Even before all the evidence was released, grand juries tend to give a lot of latitude to police officers because of the dangers of their work. Indictments against police officers are rare for a reason. It takes extraordinary evidence to get one, and from what did get released to the public, I did not see that materializing.

Yeah, the full medical report says something similar but that isn't really the problem here.

Wilson testified that he feared a third punch would be "fatal" as the reason he drew his weapon. The first two supposed punches left him with a barely visible bruise and "in no visible distress" with no signs of concussion or indeed anything else except for a bruise. Nothing broken, fractured or dislocated.

You're misinterpreting the evidence, then. That the bruise was barely visible does not mean Wilson was lying about his perception of Brown's attack on him. He doesn't have to be in visible distress to have been in a life threatening situation. He doesn't have to have sustained a fracture or dislocation to have been in danger for his life.

He also testified that his right and left cheeks were swollen at the time of this hospital visit ( which the hospital report disagrees with and finds no injury at all to the left ). When asked in the stand about the swelling in the pictures he said he "couldn't tell" whether or not his face was swollen.

Again, swelling takes time to appear. That's why we ice injuries right after they happen; to reduce the amount of swelling that will happen. At this point I don't know what first aid was administered (I'm still going through the documents and haven't gotten to see if his hospital records were produced.) He was in the grand jury weeks later, so the discrepancy really is meaningless.

He didn't take any pictures. He testified that his camera batteries were dead so he couldn't. >.>

That's negligence IMHO. If you're a medical examiner, carry spare batteries. Or better yet, since he testified he had to wait for the CSI to finish with the scene before he went in, he could have run down the street to the C store Brown robbed and BOUGHT some.

No, I was mainly suggesting the Ferguson PD is a corrupt incompetent shithole putting up the blue wall around one of their own. >.>

I'll grant you, the FPD is incompetent. I'm sure they wanted to protect their guy. But there's a big stretch between that and obstructing justice; you need proof to make that charge stick.

Agreed. For those of you playing the home game here is the sequence according to Wilson:


This is the sequence of events according to Wilson:

1. He testified that the first punch was not a full on swing and that he deflected some of it with his arm.

2. Then he testified that Brown stopped attacking and while holding him in the car with one hand passed the cigars to the other guy with the other hand and told him "Hey man, hold these.".

3. At that point Wilson testified that he grabbed Brown's arm with both of his hands but that Brown was just so big and strong that it was like a "Hulk Hogan vs a 5 year old".

4. Brown hit him a second time in the jaw. Wilson let go of Brown and put his hands up to protect himself.

5. He did not want to use his mace because he didn't want to put one hand down to grab it and have only one hand to protect his face. He also testified that it would not be effective because Brown "had his hands in front of his face" which would have prevented it from hitting Brown in the face.

6. This is also why he did not want to use his baton. He did not want to lower one hand away from protecting his face.

7. Similar reason for not using his mag light.

8. So he lowered one hand away from his face to draw his gun instead ( okay? ) and testified that Brown immediately grabbed his gun.

Throughout Wilson's testimony he paints Brown as a superhuman killing machine. He was like "Hulk Hogan", he looked "Demonic" ( yes, he actually said demonic ), he had "Never seen someone so aggressive" in his entire life, bullets didn't phase him they just made him angrier, etc etc.

OK. What's your point? Everything Wilson says makes sense. Although I do believe he said he couldn't reach the mag lite.

AFAIK, the Grand Jury handed down their decision something like *six hours* before the press conference made the announcement. It just gave the assembled masses time to get that much angrier and more frustrated. They all knew this was coming, and delaying the announcement just allowed the news networks to have a a major event happen during prime time.

Given that the DA ripped into the media during his statement about the grand jury decision, I find this highly unlikely. It is more likely he didn't have enough LEO's in place for the inevitable riot, or that he wanted to give kids time to get home from school and people to get home (ie off the streets) before making the announcement.

If I'm right about his reasoning, he blundered. He had a much better chance at crowd control before it actually got dark, and he had plenty of time to get resources into play over the weekend.

Oddly enough, this is kinda sorta how the Trayvon thing (perhaps) should have gone -- IIRC, the chief down there openly stated from the beginning that he felt that they didn't have enough evidence to go to trial, let alone to convict (of course, I could be mistaken - mea culpa if so) -- which, we are being told, the case was here. The difference in Florida was, someone forced the issue anyway, and the trial itself had the inevitable result.

In the Martin case the issue of culpability was far less clear, even with Florida's stand by your ground law. Juries give law enforcement more latitude because of the nature of their work.

The DA should have called for a special prosecutor. If he had done so, and the SP had followed the DAs handbook on transparency of the grand jury evidence and testimony, the results might have been better accepted.

But then again, with people literally calling for blood since the shooting, maybe not. The mood was like a modern day lynch mob. In fact, I think some of these people might have done Wilson harm had he not left town.

I suppose we'll have to put up with a shitload of armchair lawyering for the next few weeks, because of this (the evidence was released after the press conference -- probably heavily redacted, tho).

The only thing redacted thus far in the testimony is the names of the witnesses.

[Gravekeeper]

You're misinterpreting the evidence, then. That the bruise was barely visible does not mean Wilson was lying about his perception of Brown's attack on him. He doesn't have to be in visible distress to have been in a life threatening situation. He doesn't have to have sustained a fracture or dislocation to have been in danger for his life.

Wilson has changed his account of events at least three times now and didn't even keep his story straight on the witness stand. First it was 10 punches. Then 3. Then 2 but the feared the third would be "Fatal". Meanwhile Mike Brown according to Wilson's testimony was able to completely overpower and control him with one arm to the extent that he was able to nonchalantly hand the cigars to Dorian and ask him to hold these during the supposed life threatening struggle.

Wilson also testified that Brown was holding the cigars in the hand that he said Brown was striking him with. So Brown was also able to pass the cigars from his right to his left and hand them to Dorian while asking Dorian to hold them for him. All during this supposed life threatening beating he was giving Wilson.

Wilson testified he was punched twice with full force and that Brown was an incredibly strong aggressive demonic attacker that just snapped on him for no reason whatsoever after he politely asked him to walk on the sidewalk. Yet the two full force punches from the demonic "Hulk Hogan" left a barely perceptible bruise on his right cheek. The cheek facing away from the attack. He also declined to go to the hospital and only went to the hospital after told by an attorney.

Wilson also testified that no one from the police department asked him to give a statement. The only statement he gave was a written one to his attorney. Thus protecting it from disclosure.

It is more likely he didn't have enough LEO's in place for the inevitable riot, or that he wanted to give kids time to get home from school and people to get home (ie off the streets) before making the announcement.

As I already mentioned the time of release was entirely the prosecutor's decision. Law enforcement asked him NOT to release the decision at night fearing it would worsen the situation. Also seeing as Missouri declared a state of emergency there's no way they did not have enough people on hand or in place.

The only thing redacted thus far in the testimony is the names of the witnesses.

The names of the officers who investigated Wilson are redacted too. Despite being public servants.

[FMA_Fanatic]

A little late to the party, but I wanted to check in. Last night was nothing short of on edge. I live less than a mile to the airport. Close enough that when the planes fly over, sometimes the house rattles. That close.

It became eerily quiet a little before 9pm, a time when it's usually really busy with arrivals and departures before it quiets down for the night. The kind of quiet I remember from 9/11. It wasn't long before I saw that the FAA had temporarily shut down the airport due to the riots.

I watched as the buildings were looted and torched on TV. I know the area well, I used to live close to it. The buildings were part of a strip mall area, not far from the local Walmart and Sam's Club. I feel sorry for the people who had items stored in the Public Storage. I imagine that if the location is not corporate owned, the owners themselves will probably end up in bankruptcy due to the claims of lost property. Unless there's some clause that will keep them from losing their livelihood.

We also had a minor bit of rioting near where I live. The Taco Bell a couple blocks down from us had windows smashed and there were reports of the CVS further down being looted, but nothing substantiated on the latter. Cop cars flew by our little street and it was noisy and busy for an hour or two, then calmed down. Funny that nothing was said about our little neck of the woods, on the other side of the airport from Ferguson.

I've also discovered just how much of a racist bitch the receptionist is at work. She pissed me off enough that I walked away from her mid conversation today. It boiled down to Mike Brown deserved what he got and if the damned don't like it, they can go back to Africa. She said a lot more to others later, bad enough that apparently that she got a good talking to from HR (not enough IMO; damned woman should have been fired). Thank God she's not going to be there tomorrow.

[Greenday]

Lisa Bloom is having a field day with this.

Christ, just look at this bullshit.

No way! A lawyer who makes a living off playing up racial issues is telling a one-sided story? Certainly not extreme bias at all.

[Gravekeeper]

No way! A lawyer who makes a living off playing up racial issues is telling a one-sided story? Certainly not extreme bias at all.

Yes. A "one sided story" that's directly quoting and referencing the court documents by page number.

-.-

[Panacea]

So I am looking at Wilson's ER record. I'm looking at the ER physican's physical examination.

Right jaw was painful with the doctor palpated (pressed on it) it. It was bruised (ecchymosis). He had an abrasion to the back of his neck. All the injuries described in the ER report, in the initial police reports, and in the testimony of the detectives who first interviewed Wilson are visible in the photos on CNN.

I'll be curious to see if additional photos were taken of Wilson a day or two later. I'm betting his attorney was smart enough to do that. Seems like the cops weren't, or maybe Wilson just wasn't available since he left town pretty soon after.

The injuries are consistent with Wilson's testimony. He was given an anti-inflammatory in the ER, which would be given both for pain and to reduce swelling.

I'm actually pretty pissed at the nurses. They gave very poor care. They did not assess the site of the injury completely and they did not apply ice to the area as first aid, which they should have (they did not need a doctor's order to do that).

Gah! Basic stuff I did and documented without a second thought, and they fucked it up.

And they didn't get discharge vitals! :headbang:

I know, it's nit picky stuff. But this is the kind of shit I hate, and the kind of shit I see all the time in medical records when someone is suing for malpractice. It only take seconds to do this shit. Gah!

So now I'm looking at the autopsy report done by the St. Louis Medical Examiner. This is the first one that was done.

I'm looking at the descriptions of the gun shot wounds, in particular of the arms. This is the report I've been itching to get my hands on, the full report not the bits the St Louis Dispatch released.

The entrance wounds are in the dorsal parts of the arms, exit wounds in the ventral. In English that means the bullets went through the top part ("outside") of the arm and exited on the bottom part or "inside". Plantar is another term.

Brown would have to be facing away from Wilson for that to happen if his hands were up as claimed. All the other entrance wounds are in the front, including the fatal and life threatening wounds.

If he had his hands up to surrender while facing Wilson when he was shot, the entrance and exit wounds would be reversed.

I don't think the autopsy report can support a finding that Brown had his arms and hands in a surrender posture. Wilson describes Brown coming at him as if to tackle him, right arm by his waistband and left arm extended. That makes more sense with the injuries described.

He was positive for pot. How high he was is hard to determine, in spite of some media reports, because there's no consensus on what those levels mean.

I'm still going through the witness reports and the testimony. That'll take awhile. There's a ton of stuff to read.

[Panacea]

Wilson has changed his account of events at least three times now and didn't even keep his story straight on the witness stand. First it was 10 punches. Then 3. Then 2 but the feared the third would be "Fatal".

That's not changing his story. It is not uncommon for people involved in these kinds of situations to grossly over or underestimate the number of blows. Memories often improve over time. Wilson consistently said that he feared Brown was going to get the best of him. His stories vary in minor details, but are overall consistent with one another.

When you question Wilson's perceptions of what happened and question their veracity, you are effectively putting yourself in Wilson's shoes and telling us Wilson had no right to interpret Browns actions or to feel what he felt. I take issue with that. Wilson has every right to say he was afraid of Brown.

He was a big guy who'd just shoved a clerk into a display case. Wilson didn't know that at the time, yet he consistently describes Browns intensity and belligerent behavior. Browns behavior in the store and with Wilson are consistent, and makes Wilson's descriptions of Brown very believable.

Meanwhile Mike Brown according to Wilson's testimony was able to completely overpower and control him with one arm to the extent that he was able to nonchalantly hand the cigars to Dorian and ask him to hold these during the supposed life threatening struggle.

Non-chalant is YOUR term . . . you're adding to the story. Brown handed the cigars to Johnson. Given that Wilson has testified that Brown had the upper hand at first (at one point Wilson had his gun in his hand and Brown had Wilson's hand so completely turned that the gun was pointing at Wilson); someone that strong is strong enough to pass off an object to someone else.

Wilson also testified that Brown was holding the cigars in the hand that he said Brown was striking him with. So Brown was also able to pass the cigars from his right to his left and hand them to Dorian while asking Dorian to hold them for him. All during this supposed life threatening beating he was giving Wilson.

Why do you find this so surprising? Wilson was hit on both sides of his face; Brown could easily hit with one hand and pass off on the other.

Wilson testified he was punched twice with full force and that Brown was an incredibly strong aggressive demonic attacker that just snapped on him for no reason whatsoever after he politely asked him to walk on the sidewalk. Yet the two full force punches from the demonic "Hulk Hogan" left a barely perceptible bruise on his right cheek. The cheek facing away from the attack. He also declined to go to the hospital and only went to the hospital after told by an attorney.

I've explained multiple times that the lack of a massive hematoma means NOTHING. It takes time for bruising to show. He does have bruising that is clearly visible in the photos; they would have looked a lot worse the next day. I see this all the time in domestic violence victims. They come in one night with few apparent injuries, and come back the next day (dragged in by friends granted) looking like hell.

Cops almost never want to get checked out when they're hurt. And his adrenaline was up; he wasn't thinking clearly at this point. The attorney was a FOP lawyer. We don't know who called him; I would surmise someone at the police station.

Are you saying he's somehow wrong for following the advice of his lawyer?

Wilson also testified that no one from the police department asked him to give a statement. The only statement he gave was a written one to his attorney. Thus protecting it from disclosure.

So? He was still interviewed that day as was proper. Are you saying that he didn't have the right to give a statement to his attorney that is protected by the attorney client privledge?

As I already mentioned the time of release was entirely the prosecutor's decision. Law enforcement asked him NOT to release the decision at night fearing it would worsen the situation. Also seeing as Missouri declared a state of emergency there's no way they did not have enough people on hand or in place.

I may have cited a quote as being yours, but I was answering a question from someone else. Sorry.

The names of the officers who investigated Wilson are redacted too. Despite being public servants.

Sorry, I included the officers as witnesses, which for the purposes of grand jury testimony they were.

The police report of the canvass is heavily redacted. That bothers me; makes me wonder what was said and why it was redacted. There were plenty of witnesses who gave different accounts than those reported in the media; supporting Wilson. They feared for their safety. Can't blame them. It'll be interesting when I get to the testimony of the witnesses (non-police/medical) and see what they told the grand jury. There's a ton to read; I'm not there yet (I've been working all day so just got started a couple of hours ago).

I started with the medical reports and the autopsy reports. I read a ton of those as a legal nurse consultant, so it's the natural place for me to start.

I think the physical evidence from the autopsy supports Wilson more than it supports Brown. Too many convoluted things would have to have happened for the autopsy to support the claims of Johnson and the witnesses who claimed Brown was trying to surrender.

No way! A lawyer who makes a living off playing up racial issues is telling a one-sided story? Certainly not extreme bias at all.

This bitch (Lisa Bloom) doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about.

You don't cross examine witnesses in a grand jury. That's something the defense attorney does in an actual trial.

A grand jury is a lot like a deposition, something I've done before (in fact, got another one coming up in three weeks). The opposing counsel asks questions to lay out the facts in an understandable order. The point is to lay ground work for questioning at trial . . . a smart lawyer never asks a question at trial that he doesn't already know the answer to. The prosecutor is laying out the facts of what happened for the grand jury to try and determine if a crime occurred. No more no less. That's what I see in the GJ testimony I've read thus far.

The prosecutors ask some questions to establish the credentials of the professional witnesses (the only ones I've read thus far), who they are, how they got to the scene, what they did, saw, and said. They established a timeline of events and the securing of evidence (chain of control).

Usually the target of the investigation does not have to testify: 5th amendment. Wilson didn't have to go before the grand jury. He did anyway. Everything he said there can be used against him . . . including by the Feds who are still investigating a potential civil rights violation. He would have had his lawyer with him, but the lawyer is not allowed to speak, ask questions, or even protest. Wilson took a big risk, which says a lot.

[Gravekeeper]

I'll be curious to see if additional photos were taken of Wilson a day or two later. I'm betting his attorney was smart enough to do that. Seems like the cops weren't, or maybe Wilson just wasn't available since he left town pretty soon after.

I was wondering that myself as it would bolster his case if he had swollen up later. But these seem to be the only photographs mentioned and discussed in the court records that I've noticed thus far.

The injuries are consistent with Wilson's testimony. He was given an anti-inflammatory in the ER, which would be given both for pain and to reduce swelling.

No they aren't. This is suppose to be 2-10 punches ( depending on which version of Wilson's story we look at ) but at least 2 full force punches from someone that was so amazingly strong he made the 6'4 Wilson feel like a 5 year old. Punches so strong Wilson testified he feared the third punch would be fatal as his initial justification for using lethal force.

Instead we get a bruise on the wrong side of his face that seems more consistent with being popped in the jaw once at a frat party.

I'm actually pretty pissed at the nurses. They gave very poor care. They did not assess the site of the injury completely and they did not apply ice to the area as first aid, which they should have (they did not need a doctor's order to do that).

Oh? Hrm. The one I read was 23 pages long and seemed pretty in depth including x-rays and checking the jaw, nose, eye sockets, etc? I don't recall exit vitals though.

So now I'm looking at the autopsy report done by the St. Louis Medical Examiner. This is the first one that was done.

Ugh, have fun with that. Its the first of three(?) and I don't even remember if we got results from the Federal one yet.

I don't think the autopsy report can support a finding that Brown had his arms and hands in a surrender posture. Wilson describes Brown coming at him as if to tackle him, right arm by his waistband and left arm extended. That makes more sense with the injuries described.

That was kind of odd. Wilson's testimony was that Brown had one hand apparently in the waistband of his pants the entire time so that why he fell in the position he did. The wonderful prosecutor lead a witness into the implication this suggested he had a weapon. Even though Wilson clearly testified Brown did not and did not testify he believed he did. Another witness testified that Brown was looking at the blood on his own hands like he was stunned and had just realized he'd been shot.


Witness #40 though, what the fuck man:

Well Im gonna take my random drive to Alousant. Need to understand the Black was better so I stop calling Blacks Niggers and start calling them People. Like dad always said you cant fear an hate an entire race cause of what one man did 40 yrs ago.

This witness also said that Dorian was "holding onto the cop's leg". >.>

[Gravekeeper]

Memories often improve over time. Wilson consistently said that he feared Brown was going to get the best of him. His stories vary in minor details, but are overall consistent with one another.

"Memories improve over time"? Quite the opposite. Also Wilson didn't even keep his story straight on the witness stand.

When you question Wilson's perceptions of what happened and question their veracity, you are effectively putting yourself in Wilson's shoes and telling us Wilson had no right to interpret Browns actions or to feel what he felt. I take issue with that. Wilson has every right to say he was afraid of Brown.

I didn't say he doesn't have the right, I'm saying it sounds like bullshit and the entire testimony narrative Wilson paints himself as a poor defenseless victim at the hands of a superhuman black monster whose impervious to bullets and capable of subduing a 6'4 trained police officer with one arm. While casually handing cigars to his buddy with the other arm.

He was a big guy who'd just shoved a clerk into a display case. Wilson didn't know that at the time, yet he consistently describes Browns intensity and belligerent behavior. Browns behavior in the store and with Wilson are consistent, and makes Wilson's descriptions of Brown very believable.

Wilson testified he did know of the robbery. Its the police chief who is on record saying Wilson did not know of the robbery. Also no, it doesn't make it very believable. Shoving a store clerk is a far cry from being a "demonic" killing machine that can punch men to death and is willing to die over jaywalking.

Non-chalant is YOUR term . . . you're adding to the story. Brown handed the cigars to Johnson. Given that Wilson has testified that Brown had the upper hand at first (at one point Wilson had his gun in his hand and Brown had Wilson's hand so completely turned that the gun was pointing at Wilson); someone that strong is strong enough to pass off an object to someone else.

I am not adding to the story and you have the sequence of events wrong.

Wilson testified that Brown passed the cigars from hand to hand and handed them to Dorian after punch number one but before punch number two. All of which was before Wilson drew his weapon. Wilson also testified right before this that Mike Brown was inside the car but then moments later testifies that Mike Brown was outside the car and 6 inches away. He also testifies that he saw Mike Brown coming into his vehicle but then a little bit later testifies that he did not see Mike Brown coming into his vehicle.

I've explained multiple times that the lack of a massive hematoma means NOTHING. It takes time for bruising to show. He does have bruising that is clearly visible in the photos; they would have looked a lot worse the next day..

And as I keep explaining that is not the problem. Also, there seemingly are no further photos showing any further bruising or swelling which would definitely be in evidence. The problem is that this is the attack that is the basis for Wilson using lethal force and Wilson claimed this attack was potentially fatal.

Are you saying he's somehow wrong for following the advice of his lawyer?

So? He was still interviewed that day as was proper. Are you saying that he didn't have the right to give a statement to his attorney that is protected by the attorney client privledge?

No, I already, argh. Stop asking words in my mouth misleading questions. That's obviously not what I am saying and I already said what my problem was with all of this.

This bitch (Lisa Bloom) doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about.

....Uh, seeing as she's a prominent civil rights attorney yes, she does know what she is talking about. Yes, the prosecutor can cross examine a witness in a grand jury. So can the jurors. So perhaps you should defer to the person with years of experience and a few books on the matter? All cross examine means is questioning a witness of the opposing side so to speak. Typically where it concerns oversights or inaccuracies in their testimony. Of which Wilson had a fair number that should have been subjected to follow up questions.

[Andara Bledin]

"Memories improve over time"? Quite the opposite. Also Wilson didn't even keep his story straight on the witness stand.

Of all the crap posted, the "memories improve over time" one really takes the cake as so over-the-top wrong that it makes everything else seem incredibly suspect.

Memory is like playing a game of telephone with yourself over time, with the memory being the message. Every time we recall a memory, we're not recalling a memory of the original event, but a memory of the last memory of the event, so each recall has a chance to be less accurate than the last.

In fact, with how treacherous memories actually are, leading questioning can actually poison eye-witness testimony.

[Hyena Dandy]

That's not changing his story. It is not uncommon for people involved in these kinds of situations to grossly over or underestimate the number of blows. Memories often improve over time.

Memories do not improve over time. Memories get worse over time. While it is indeed not unusual for people to misremember the series of events in a situation that was disturbing to them, they don't get better as time gets away from what happened. I have a distinct memory of looking into a mirror over the dining room table as a child, on the day before we left for Florida to pick up my sister. But I also know that I cannot possibly have that memory accurately, because at the time, I would not have been tall enough, and that memory has me with brown, not blonde hair, which I didn't get until I was seven or eight. I swear I remember it, but I know it couldn't have happened.