Ferguson, MO is a warzone.

[s_stabeler]

To be honest, even taking Panacea as knowing what they are talking about with regards the bullets ( and I presume they do) I'm still not certain Wilson was justified in shooting Brown.
1. it's not in dispute (any more) than brown attacked Wilson. (oh, and the reason people are looking sideways at the fact Wilson went to hospital later is because the delay theoretically would give Wilson the opportunity to injure himself to support his side of the story. It's no guarantee- and I'm inclined to say Wilson's injuries were indeed from Brown- but it is a legitimate possibility.) What is in dispute was if it rose to the level justifying shooting Brown.
2. Wilson testified that he could not use his non-lethal options because he didn't dare reach down to grab them off his belt because his arm was protecting his head. Yet he lowered his arm to get out his gun. Why not, if he is going to lower his arm, instead grab, for example, a taser? ( I do not know what non-lethal choices he had, however)
3. at a minimum, the investigation was bungled by FPD. Regardless of the truth of what happened between Wilson and Brown, the investigation can and should be criticised. In a situation like this, you need to make it absolutely clear there is no cover-up. Instead, you have holes in the investigation that you could sail an aircraft carrier through.
4. I find the fact that Wilson thought Brown looked "demonic" quite curious. considering racism is apparently endemic in the area, it's possible that Wilson was genuinely scared- but fed by racism, not nessecarily by actual threat.
5. the question that has to be answered is if Wilson was genuinely in fear for his life- shooting someone should only be allowed if there is NO other option. ( in short, the claim of self-defence is an affirmative one- you are saying why you killed X.)
6. do I think that teh Grand Jury was correct in not returning an indictment? Considering the evidence and testimony given to them, yes. Do I believe that the evidence was presented in a nontraditional way, to encourage the Grand Jury to not return an indictment? Possibly- At a minimum, WHY did the prosecutor give the Grand Jury evidence agianst the indictment? his job is to convince the Grand Jury to indict.

[Gravekeeper]

2. Wilson testified that he could not use his non-lethal options because he didn't dare reach down to grab them off his belt because his arm was protecting his head. Yet he lowered his arm to get out his gun. Why not, if he is going to lower his arm, instead grab, for example, a taser? ( I do not know what non-lethal choices he had, however)

Wilson testified he does not normally carry a tazer because they are uncomfortable. Also, he had a push release holster too so grabbing for his gun required more than just yanking on it. It also could not have just magically come loose like was stated in the original autopsy report.

4. I find the fact that Wilson thought Brown looked "demonic" quite curious. considering racism is apparently endemic in the area, it's possible that Wilson was genuinely scared- but fed by racism, not nessecarily by actual threat.

Wilson's narrative of Brown is loaded with shit like this:

"to intimidate me or to overpower me...the intense face he had was not what I expected."

- on how Mike Brown looked at him for asking him ever so nicely to walk on the sidewalk.

"When I grabbed him, the only way I can describe it is I felt like a five year old grabbing Hulk Hogan."

- as to why he could not, with both arms, fend off a single arm from Mike Brown.

"You are too much of a pussy to shoot me"

- What Wilson claims Brown said when Wilson drew his gun and right before Brown grabbed it.

"I've already taken two to the face and the third one could be fatal."

- on the punches he had sustained that made him afraid for his life and thus decide to draw his gun.

"And then after he did that, he looked up at me and had the most intense aggressive face. The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked."

- on how Brown reacted to the first shots before allegedly resuming attacking him.

"At this point, it looked like he was almost bulking up to run through the shots. Like it was making him mad that I'm shooting at him. And the face he had was looking straight through me, like I wasn't even there, I wasn't even in his way ... I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head, and that's what I shot ... the aggression was gone, the threat was stopped."

- on Brown's superhuman black rage rendering him impervious to gunfire. >.>

[s_stabeler]

Gravekeeper, that was pretty much my point. (also, I was using a taser as an example- any non ( or technically less-) lethal weapon can be substituted for a taser, same question. ( I know he apparently couldn't reach his maglite. That's fine enough, although I'd want to know why he couldn't reach it. if it was just chance, fair enough- if it had been placed to be deliberately inaccessible...)

personally, even IF Wilson is being completely honest about why he fires, I'm dubious about if he should remain a cop. Why? because that account of Brown's actions reads too much like a work of fiction for my liking. That, and a cop comparing someone they shot to a demon...

oh, and one more thing- there were apparently traces f pot in Brown's system. a) they don't say how much. for all we know, the levels could be low enough that he last smoked a couple weeks before, rather than being actively under the influence. Also, I hate to say t, but who took the samples used to test for drugs? if it was FPD, I'd be a bit suspicious. ( I'm wondering about a doctored sample) b) pot, as far as I know, doesn't cause you to be any more dangerous while under it's influence- indeed, it's a relaxant IIRC. If he was high on pot, I very much doubt he would be punching anybody. granted, there ARE drugs that can do that, but those weren't found in his body. c) it again does not justify shooting brown- was Brown an angel? no- it's uncontested I believe that he robbed a store earlier that day. Was Wilson justified in shooting Brown? not based on the evidence I've seen.

[Gravekeeper]

Indeed. If his account is 100% the truth than he should never have been a cop because he seems terrified of the world. However, as a cop we know he's a dick and is perfectly willing to skirt the law if he doesn't like it.

[s_stabeler]

yeah... someone willing to make threats like that ( with the exception of between good friends that KNOW it is a joke, and preferably in private) should not be a cop.

[EricKei]

b) pot, as far as I know, doesn't cause you to be any more dangerous while under it's influence- indeed, it's a relaxant IIRC.

You are correct in that is is a relaxant, but it does have side effects such as aggression, paranoia, schizophrenia, etc -- Though, presumably, they are in the minority, and it may be likely that other factors in the user's life (e.g., stress -- which likely applied in this case) may also be contributing factors.

To hazard a very wild guess (I am not a medical professional) -- it could be a similar case to how catnip works on adult cats. Catnip is a depressant/relaxant, but most cats (about 3 out of 4) seem to lose their inhibitions for a time after consuming it, resulting in the "acting like a kitten" phenomenon. After this, they eventually collapse and act, well...stoned. The remaining cats (this number happens to include the one I have now and his (now late) roomies) just go straight to the "acting stoned" part of the process. In other words -- both drugs have relatively common, well-known effects, but a certain percentage of the population is susceptible to additional effects; in the case of MJ, a minority; in the case of catnip (with cats -- it's just a plain relaxant to humans), the majority.

Also, AFAIK, there has been precious little formal research done regarding the amount of the drug required to produce an effect in someone.

----------

Sidenote - Ben Watson of the Saints put his 2 cents in

[Gravekeeper]

THC levels in the blood are notoriously unreliable for being any indicator of impairment or even any indicator of how recent the usage was. Despite how much the prosecutor tried to play up marijuana as being akin to PCP.

Also, its not really like catnip. Catnip isn't a drug it doesn't get in a cat's system or anything its purely olfactory. The reaction to catnip is also genetic and hereditary. That's why it doesn't affect all cats. It only affects cats for as basically as long as they are smelling it. Once they get use to the smell it no longer works for a while. You can "sober" a cat up by simply taking them away from the smell.

[EricKei]

Looked it up, as this piqued my curiosity. The "smell" (Nepetalactone) is a stimulant - akin to a pheremone - to those cats who are affected. Eating the stuff is what produces the sedative effect. While the cats I've had have always had the chance to smell it, they ate it afterwards (I usually mixed it with food) -- I normally reserve it for trips to the vet, as it calmed them down enough to get them into the kitty carrier, and they seemed to be less stressed out at the actual clinic as a result. A vet I used to go to also had a Feliway atomizer set up in the exam room, which also helped.

[Gravekeeper]

PBS has broken down all the witness testimony into a helpful chart and it makes for interesting reading:

Here’s a breakdown of the data we found:

More than 50 percent of the witness statements said that Michael Brown held his hands up when Darren Wilson shot him. (16 out of 29 such statements)

Only five witness statements said that Brown reached toward his waist during the confrontation leading up to Wilson shooting him to death.

More than half of the witness statements said that Brown was running away from Wilson when the police officer opened fire on the 18-year-old, while fewer than one-fifth of such statements indicated that was not the case.

There was an even split among witness statements that said whether or not Wilson fired upon Brown when the 18-year-old had already collapsed onto the ground.

Only six witness statements said that Brown was kneeling when Wilson opened fire on him. More than half of the witness statements did not mention whether or not Brown was kneeling.

Only 6 witnesses say that Brown charged at Wilson according to the chart. Which is noteworthy given that Prosecutor Numbnuts said Brown charging Wilson was a center point to the testimony in his rambling press conference.

PBS also noted that some "Witnesses" were not actually in a position to see the amount of detail they claim. Witness #30 for example claims they saw Brown charge the officer, put his hand in his waistband, run away from the officer and did not have his hands up. But Witness #30 also testified they were a few blocks away and that it was his wife that told him some of this. Witness #30 also weirdly testifies that he thought Brown was pointing a gun at the officer and that there was a firefight between the two.

Witness #30 also, disturbing, laughs after describing the first shot that hit Brown.

Witness #43 testifies that Officer Wilson tried to taze Brown initially but missed and then drew his gun. Wilson testified he does not carry a tazer as it is "uncomfortable". So no idea what's going on there.

[Gravekeeper]

The Smoking Gun has uncovered witness #40 and holy shit.

She essentially made everything up.

[KabeRinnaul]

And sounds completely insane.

“Well Im gonna take my random drive to Florisant,” she wrote in the journal. “Need to understand the Black race better so I stop calling Blacks Niggers and Start calling them People.”

[Greenday]

PBS has broken down all the witness testimony into a helpful chart and it makes for interesting reading:



Only 6 witnesses say that Brown charged at Wilson according to the chart. Which is noteworthy given that Prosecutor Numbnuts said Brown charging Wilson was a center point to the testimony in his rambling press conference.

Did you know most of those witnesses who said Brown was running away from Wilson changed their story once forensic evidence proved that wrong? Then they started saying he was executed. Then when that was proven false too, their stories changed again.

Fact is, there's a lot of liars on both side and we'll never find out what happened as a result.

[Gravekeeper]

Did you know most of those witnesses who said Brown was running away from Wilson changed their story once forensic evidence proved that wrong? Then they started saying he was executed. Then when that was proven false too, their stories changed again.

Fact is, there's a lot of liars on both side and we'll never find out what happened as a result.

First of all, there is no forensic evidence that proves anything of that nature. Second of all, even Darren Wilson's account says that Brown was initially fleeing from him. Brown didn't leisurely stroll 180+ feet from Wilson's SUV making sure to pause and take off one sandal every 20 feet till he was barefoot.

Unless you're trying to say something about Brown supposedly turning and charging? In which case, thirdly, while the forensic evidence does indicate Brown eventually turned out and came back towards Wilson for 20ish feet; said forensic evidence was unable to determine the speed at which Brown was moving or if Brown had stopped or turned because he was hit.

Additionally, Wilson contrary to evidence procedure, did not properly store or maintain critical forensic evidence. Such as his gun for example.

As for the witnesses, due to the nature of the beast the most valuable witness testimony is that which was collected right after the incident. Testimony such as this crazed woman's which was obtained weeks later shouldn't even have been submitted as evidence. But that's the asshole prosecutor again.

[BlaqueKatt]

1. it's not in dispute (any more) than brown attacked Wilson. (oh, and the reason people are looking sideways at the fact Wilson went to hospital later is because the delay theoretically would give Wilson the opportunity to injure himself to support his side of the story. It's no guarantee- and I'm inclined to say Wilson's injuries were indeed from Brown- but it is a legitimate possibility.)

except one of the "injuries" was several scratches on his neck, and huh, no DNA form wilson was found under Mike brown's fingernails. Magic scratches? did he clean his nails while fleeing? They claim to have recovered Mike Brown's DNA from brushing on wilson's pants in the car, but no DNA transfer to Brown from the punching or scratching?

[Gravekeeper]

Well, the collection of forensics evidence in general was kinda....yeah. I mean, Wilson returned to the station by himself without escort, washed the blood off himself and then improperly stored his gun as evidence. All of which are major violations of protocol for handling a crime scene and securing evidence against tampering or disturbance. Wilson should not have been allowed to leave the scene and if he had to leave the scene he should not have been allowed to go without officer escort. Evidence must be handled in a chain of custody so its preserved and documented properly. At no point was this chain of custody even established in Ferguson.

Wilson actually destroyed evidence and tampered with evidence in direct contradiction to crime scene guidelines. Even if he didn't know ( and he farking should ) the guidelines the other officers SHOULD have known them and acted accordingly.

Then you have examiner who didn't take pictures of the crime scene because his camera was mysteriously out of batteries and did not even do any measurements at the scene because he said what happened was "self explanatory". Additionally, there are no photographs of Wilson prior to him washing himself off because "no photographer was available".