"Yes, your friend may be a rapist!" - really?

[SkullKing]

If you spend a lot of time with someone - like you'd do with a friend or a close relative - then you *do* get to know them. You understand what makes them happy, angry, sad, and you know how they react in any of these situations. So, yeah: you'd know if they might rape someone, or not.

This thinking is extremely naive, and one for the main reason when popular people with lots of friends rape someone unpopular, there is so much victim blaming, even when there is proof.

It is impossible to know someone 100%, and many criminals can be quite charismatic and fun people.

This is exactly the kind of thinking the article is trying to dispel due to the harm it causes.(It does seem like a bit too much though)

[Ghel]

I'm so sorry, BlaqueKatt. *Hugs* if you want them.

[Sleepwalker]

Kheldarson: So, they should mitigate their risk of being attacked by not drinking, going out after dark, etc... but not limit their contact with men because it's unfair to men? Hooo, boy, entitlement. Pro tip- you're supposed tow atch your drink because A MAN might roofie it. You're supposed to not walk alone int he dark because A MAN might jump you. This beer bottles and shadows ain't doing this shit by themselves.

Gravekeeper: you just repeated that most rapists are men but then go on to say 'anyone can be a rapist' like it's not vastly more likely to be a man.


Seriously, this thread right here undermines my trust in the male of the species a hell of a lot more than mere 1 in 5 statistics. Because y'all won't ever believe your buds are rapists because they are your buds, won't act to prevent rape from happening around you, and likely are so blinded by the refusal to cast you and yours as 'RAPISTS' that even if you commit rape at some point in your life you'll still consider yourself justified in doing it. Because rapists are bad people and you like yourself and your buddies, therefore you can't be rapists regardless of what your hands and penises do.

Men are people, so it's not fair to say things that make them question their own and their buddies' actions. Women are women, so it's ok for them to shoulder the burden of being a potential victim as if rapists spawned out of the ether and returned there.

[Kheldarson]

Kheldarson: So, they should mitigate their risk of being attacked by not drinking, going out after dark, etc... but not limit their contact with men because it's unfair to men? Hooo, boy, entitlement. Pro tip- you're supposed tow atch your drink because A MAN might roofie it. You're supposed to not walk alone int he dark because A MAN might jump you. This beer bottles and shadows ain't doing this shit by themselves.

That wasn't what I was saying.

If I say I don't want to go hang out with a black person or in an area where blacks hang out, I'd be told I'm being racist. Never mind there are blacks who rob, kill, and, yes, rape.

Yet it's supposed to be okay if we go to the larger group set of just gender?

That's unfair to BOTH genders. It casts one side as being hyper vigilant paranoids and the other as being horrible monsters. Neither of which are true of the whole nor exclusive to either side.

Seriously, this thread right here undermines my trust in the male of the species a hell of a lot more than mere 1 in 5 statistics. Because y'all won't ever believe your buds are rapists because they are your buds, won't act to prevent rape from happening around you, and likely are so blinded by the refusal to cast you and yours as 'RAPISTS' that even if you commit rape at some point in your life you'll still consider yourself justified in doing it. Because rapists are bad people and you like yourself and your buddies, therefore you can't be rapists regardless of what your hands and penises do.

Men are people, so it's not fair to say things that make them question their own and their buddies' actions. Women are women, so it's ok for them to shoulder the burden of being a potential victim as if rapists spawned out of the ether and returned there.

I'm a woman

And I'm not saying that we should ever, ever give a pass to a proven rapist. And I don't think GK is either.

What I'm saying is that you can't act like every man IS a proven rapist. Sure, be cautious with new people, both men and women. That's understandable: you don't know their intents or have trust in them. But acting like it's inevitable that every man will be an aggressor and every woman a victim is a horrible way to fix the issue.

[Canarr]

My rapist was my best friend for over 6 years at the time, we even dated for a brief period, I stayed at his house almost constantly during a time when my roommates were awful, but the night my first husband and I separated........And he was friends with my husband, because of me. No trial though, he actually plead out, and admitted what he did, I had to be present for his plea. He not only blames me for "ruining his life" but has told numerous people he still loves me and knows "we're meant to be together".

I'm sorry to hear that, BK. And I apologize if my words brought up any kind of painful memory; that wasn't my intention.

Re-reading my post, I realized that I fell into the same trap of absolutes as the author of the article I criticized; mea culpa. That was wrong of me. Of course, it's not 100% possible to exclude a friend or a relative of being a rapist. Any human being can always be mistaken.

Seriously, this thread right here undermines my trust in the male of the species a hell of a lot more than mere 1 in 5 statistics. Because y'all won't ever believe your buds are rapists because they are your buds, won't act to prevent rape from happening around you, and likely are so blinded by the refusal to cast you and yours as 'RAPISTS' that even if you commit rape at some point in your life you'll still consider yourself justified in doing it. Because rapists are bad people and you like yourself and your buddies, therefore you can't be rapists regardless of what your hands and penises do.

So... what would you do, if your brother, father, husband - any important male person in your social circle - were accused of rape? Would you immediately disassociate with them, as the article demands? Would you take any woman's word over theirs, just because every man could be a rapist, and so they might be guilty? Or would you, maybe, doubt?

You asked me if I were willing to believe a female friend claiming she'd been raped, and answered yes, but admitted that I wasn't sure how I'd react if she accused a male friend of raping her. I'm still not.

If I am required to accept that any man I know might be a rapist - despite what my judgement of their character tells me - then, consequently, I must also be required to accept that any person I know could be any kind of criminal. Or, simply put: if any man can be a rapist, any woman can be a liar. And I still don't know who I'm supposed to believe - the man, because he's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty; or the woman, because otherwise I run the risk of protecting a rapist.

Has anyone here ever been in such a situation? How did they handle it?

[Sleepwalker]

The issue with racial stereotypes is that they aren't accurate reflections of real life. If they were accurate, they would be facts, not stereotypes (ie scandinavians as a group have much lighter skin than nigerians).

When 5-10% men admit to committing acts consonant with rape (though most deny the word rape itself), and up to a _third_ say they would likely commit those acts if they wouldn't be punished for it, when most rapes are committed by friends, family and coworkers... is it paranoia or acknowledgment of a fact of life in our society?

[Gravekeeper]

Gravekeeper: you just repeated that most rapists are men but then go on to say 'anyone can be a rapist' like it's not vastly more likely to be a man.

Well, if that's all you gleaned from my post we can explore that as well. Female on female rape is a huge problem in female prisons as well. Female prisoners are much more likely to be raped by other female prisoners. While male prisoners are, oddly enough, more likely to be the target of sexual abuse and rape by prison staff. The incidents of female on female rape in prison vastly eclipse male on male rape. Its just there are less women in prisons than men. So total victims are lower. But the incident rate is much higher.

1 in 5 male prisoners will be sexually assaulted. 1 in 4 female prisoners will be sexually assaulted. But female prisoners are twice as likely to be sexually assaulted by other female prisoners than male prisoners are by other male prisoners.

Framing this as a competition between men and women helps neither side. Rape is rape and rape is bad. The circumstances under which rape or sexual assault occurs to either gender may vary. But blaming one gender as a whole instead of examining the actual problem ( Which would be culture, education, socio-economic issues, etc. ) is a pointless exercise and only hinders our ability to understand and combat the problem.

Seriously, this thread right here undermines my trust in the male of the species a hell of a lot more than mere 1 in 5 statistics. Because y'all won't ever believe your buds are rapists because they are your buds, won't act to prevent rape from happening around you, and likely are so blinded by the refusal to cast you and yours as 'RAPISTS' that even if you commit rape at some point in your life you'll still consider yourself justified in doing it. Because rapists are bad people and you like yourself and your buddies, therefore you can't be rapists regardless of what your hands and penises do.

I'm going to be bluntly honest here. That was frankly personally offensive and insulting. If your main take away from this thread is that we "all" be totally team rape then honestly? You can go fark yourself sideways. You are part of the problem whether you realize it or not.

[KabeRinnaul]

Because y'all won't ever believe your buds are rapists because they are your buds, won't act to prevent rape from happening around you, and likely are so blinded by the refusal to cast you and yours as 'RAPISTS' that even if you commit rape at some point in your life you'll still consider yourself justified in doing it.

Yeah, no. If a guy knows a friend of his has turned out to be a creep, he'll generally speak up or ditch said friend.

I've done it myself.

There was a guy in my old D&D group. Knew him about eight years total. He was a pretty nice guy, but in college we weren't in contact as much as we had been in high school. When college was done with and I started seeing the guy again, he had picked up a tendency to make sexist remarks, watched brutal, abusive porn, and generally raised some concern. So I quit hanging around him, and only joined my old D&D group if I was assured he wouldn't be there.

When a female friend wound up dating him and I found out, I made sure to tell her his history and advised she break it off.

Oh, and as to your "men are rapists, women are victims" narrative you have going here—I'm a male victim of sexual abuse myself.

Has anyone here ever been in such a situation? How did they handle it?

Not that exact situation, but similar. Had two friends in college, and she claimed he was abusing her. Even got a restraining order against him. I sided with him because the woman in question had a history of mental illness and was a known habitual liar. Plus, one of the dates she claimed he did this on, he was in intensive care at the local hospital, because his diabetes had recently caused severe damage to his thyroid, and his body wasn't regulating his blood sugar at all.

And back in high school, a guy I knew (more of an acquaintance than a friend) was accused of rape by the girl he was with at the time. I didn't know either of them well enough to take a side. He hung himself rather than go through being ostracized and investigated for it. She recanted after his death was announced.

[Sleepwalker]

Canarr: Statistically, false reports of rape are rare. It's far more likely that your hypothetical male friend is a rapist than that your female friend is a liar. How I would respond to that hypothetical situation really depends on the details. All things being equal, I'd likely disassociate myself with the male friend at the very least.

Gravekeeper: Your problem is not my problem. My problem is rape. Your problem appears to be people thinking you are more likely to be a rapist because you are a man. Outside of a prison, you are far more likely to be a rapist and I am far more likely to be raped. You are considering my innate wariness around you to be The Problem, while I am considering my innate risk of rape to be The Problem.

I am not going to consider your hurt feelings over my not trusting you enough for your tastes to trump my personal safety considerations. Seriously, get over yourself.

[Kheldarson]

The issue with racial stereotypes is that they aren't accurate reflections of real life. If they were accurate, they would be facts, not stereotypes (ie scandinavians as a group have much lighter skin than nigerians).

When 5-10% men admit to committing acts consonant with rape (though most deny the word rape itself), and up to a _third_ say they would likely commit those acts if they wouldn't be punished for it, when most rapes are committed by friends, family and coworkers... is it paranoia or acknowledgment of a fact of life in our society?

It is a fact that people of any race have a percentage of criminals. The percentage is variable between groups and regions, but it's still a fact that a percentage of blacks, whites, Hispanics, etc. will perpetrate a crime.

So should I just avoid everyone because it's an "acknowledgment of a fact in our society"? Should I, ironically, encourage others to avoid everyone because of this "acknowledgment"?

You'd call me paranoid if I were actually advocating it because not everybody steals, kills, lies, etc, right?

So how is this any different?

There are ways to mitigate becoming a victim of any crime. A lot of those ways overlap for a multitude of crimes (like avoiding certain areas after dark). Will it protect you fully? No, because power hungry douches will still find a way if that's what they want. We can all find stories to prove it. And even being a hermit may not protect you fully.

So, again, why are we trying to punish the whole for a small portion?

[Sleepwalker]

Kabe: I am saying that most rapists are men, and that my demographic's rate of being raped is pretty damn high. That men and boys are also raped doesn't really undermine my case here.

[Sleepwalker]

Kheldarson: What punishment am I meting out?

[Kheldarson]

Kheldarson: What punishment am I meting out?

All men must be treated as being potential criminals isn't a punishment? That an entire half of our population must be condemned for the actions of maybe a quarter at most?

That's the attitude you've been projecting. Avoid men! Don't trust them!

That's social punishment.

And it does jackshit to actually solve the problem. You don't fix an issue by dragging the other side down.

[Gravekeeper]

Canarr: Statistically, false reports of rape are rare.

Statistically, false rape accusations have been very difficult to track because false rape allegations are not typically prosecuted. The number varies from 8% to 43% depending on the country/study and false rape accusations are disproportionately made against minorities.

Gravekeeper: Your problem is not my problem. My problem is rape. Your problem appears to be people thinking you are more likely to be a rapist because you are a man. Outside of a prison, you are far more likely to be a rapist and I am far more likely to be raped. You are considering my innate wariness around you to be The Problem, while I am considering my innate risk of rape to be The Problem.

My problem, as I have stated quite clearly twice now, is rape. Period. My problem with you specifically, despite you trying to re-frame your argument now, is that you just painted half the population of the world as rapists or pro rapists. Then went on to say we would totally support rape, do nothing to prevent it and commit it ourselves and not even realize it. Like what? Whoops, just raped someone?

You don't get to do that without being called out it no matter what you want to believe. False rape accusations hurt real victims.

Seriously, get over yourself.

You first.

[Sleepwalker]

Khel: Men aren't being treated as potential criminals by our legal, economic or religious systems. That women treat them as potential criminals in their personal lives is their right. You do not have the right to the company of women. No woman is required to smile at you, or strike up a conversation, or help you carry your things into your apartment. You not getting these things is not an infringement of any rights you have. If you have a problem with this, work on making 'men' more trustworthy- your hurt feelings do not make women safer.

Gravekeeper: 85% of rapists say what they did was not rape, despite it being non consensual sex. Every damn criminal out there has family and friends rallying behind them during their trial and incarceration. Yeah, I think dudes support rape. When dudes think rape can be stopped by women stopping thinking of guys as a threat, instead of guys stopping BEING a threat, then yeah. Seriously, y'all are trying to shame me into not viewing men as threats, as if going through the motions of guarding my drink and locking my doors and walking to my car in groups while ignoring who exactly I think I am guarding myself against is somehow going to fix the rape problem.

Are you next going to say we shouldn't teach kids what to do if an adult touches them in the wrong place, because it's unfair to adults? Not ALL child abusers are adults!