What has happened to the police?

[s_stabeler]

I think there is a rather more basic problem here. The argument seems to be, more or less, when cops should act as if there is a threat. In my view, the guy reaching for the glove box isn't the point at which thye are a threat- however, it WOULD justfy having a hand on your gun, ready to draw it quickly. But to actually fire? no.

[Ninja_Sushi]

Actually it goes very well when I tell them where my gun is. Last time I was pulled over they asked if I had any guns in my car, I said yes and told them where. They asked if it would be alright to take my weapon for the stop, I said no problem. I just stepped out as instructed, he got it, unloaded it and ran my gun to make sure it was legit. It was returned to me, magazine and the one bullet in the chamber separate and put it in my backseat, instructed me that I could reload after he left. And he thanked me for being polite about it all because some people are assailed

Its not really a big deal. We even had a discussion about guns and what we planned to buy next.

But again, thats just me. I dont get pulled over a lot, but when I do I have nothing but a pleasant experience every time. Respect, cooperation, calm, and light hearted is the way to go. Just like what my dad taught me, just like my time in service taught me.

Again, thats just how I personally roll. Just me. No one has to agree with me or follow my example. Not even saying what I do works for all officers. Its how I operate. Sorry for repeating myself, I dont like having words shoved in my mouth.

[Jetfire]

Frankly, I agree with Ninja. Admittedly, I don't own a gun or a car and I've only been pulled over once (for speeding back when I did have a car). A lot depends on being able to read the situation and both sides need to be doing their best to try and keep things as calm and relaxed as possible.

If a person is pulled over, and that person is confrontational and beligerant, then the cop has reason to be more alert and suspicious, and less likely to be more forgiving.

If the person pulled over is cooperative (which doesn't mean giving up all their rights, just being calm, saying yes/no, and obeying the officer(s) within reason), then the cop is more likely to be more relaxed and less tense in general. Just like most people notice over on CS how they are more likely to bend over backwards for the friendly customers than for the EWs.

Saying what you are doing before you do it (especially if it means reaching into hidden compartments like glove boxes) is a judgement call based on reading how tense the situation is. If the cop seems relaxed and isn't shouting, then you can probably reach for the registration slowly without preannouncing it. If the cop seems extra alert for whatever reason (maybe there's been a shooting recently that you don't know about and they're doing more checks than usual or something), then it might be best to announce ahead of time.

Of course, there can be Assholes and Idiots on both sides of the situation, and sometimes things can go bad no matter what one side or the other does.

[TheHuckster]

Actually it goes very well when I tell them where my gun is. Last time I was pulled over they asked if I had any guns in my car, I said yes and told them where.

Well, yeah, if they ask you, then obviously you be honest with them. You seemed to be indicating earlier that you volunteered that information to them, as if randomly telling a cop that you have a gun in your car would somehow ease the tension.

But again, thats just me. I dont get pulled over a lot, but when I do I have nothing but a pleasant experience every time. Respect, cooperation, calm, and light hearted is the way to go. Just like what my dad taught me, just like my time in service taught me.

That's fine. I respect, cooperate, and am calm with the cop as well, and never had a problem. I just don't consider being overly timid about it includes those things. If it works for you, then fine. There's more than one way to respect a cop.

Again, thats just how I personally roll. Just me. No one has to agree with me or follow my example. Not even saying what I do works for all officers. Its how I operate. Sorry for repeating myself, I dont like having words shoved in my mouth.

If you don't want words shoved into your mouth, you shouldn't say things that imply if you don't announce all of your movements and actions during a routine traffic stop you're disrespecting the officer. Because that is what you originally said. You're backpedaling now, saying this is merely what you personally do yourself, and to each his own, but before you were indicating that this is something everyone should do.

If a person is pulled over, and that person is confrontational and beligerant, then the cop has reason to be more alert and suspicious, and less likely to be more forgiving.

Of course. Being confrontational and belligerent is counterproductive and doesn't help your case if you feel you've been wronged. I don't think anyone here said otherwise.

The victim in the OP was not at all being confrontational nor belligerent, nor are people who reach for what was asked for.

Saying what you are doing before you do it (especially if it means reaching into hidden compartments like glove boxes) is a judgement call based on reading how tense the situation is. If the cop seems relaxed and isn't shouting, then you can probably reach for the registration slowly without preannouncing it. If the cop seems extra alert for whatever reason (maybe there's been a shooting recently that you don't know about and they're doing more checks than usual or something), then it might be best to announce ahead of time.

Of course, there can be Assholes and Idiots on both sides of the situation, and sometimes things can go bad no matter what one side or the other does.

This is true. If a cop came up to me and immediately started treating me like a felon, I'll be extra cautious. In the case of the video, the cop was showing a calm demeanor, right up until the guy went for his license, at which point he instantly switched to apeshit mode and began shooting him.

In the victim's shoes, I would have considered the cop to be calm, and thus would have done the same thing, albeit I probably would have been a little bit less abrupt, but I'm typically unabrupt in my daily actions anyway.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Wow, there are a lot of kinds of guilty but that pretty much covers all of them.

Honestly I just kinda wonder what the hell was going on in that guys mind. Was he ultra-paranoid? Did he have every intension of doing what he did? It seems so irrational that I don't know what version of crazy we're dealing with.

What makes no sense to me is a guy gets out of the car unarmed and obviously knows its a stop, you ask him to get the license, then you deliver an ultimatum to get back out of the car and open fire in less than 3 seconds?

[HYHYBT]

A related question: I've heard, along with telling them you're doing what they just told you to do, you should never open the car door. (Presumably does not apply if they tell you to get out.) Also to always have your window open before they get to it. What, then, would be the appropriately overcautious response if your window doesn't work?

[Greenday]

A related question: I've heard, along with telling them you're doing what they just told you to do, you should never open the car door. (Presumably does not apply if they tell you to get out.) Also to always have your window open before they get to it. What, then, would be the appropriately overcautious response if your window doesn't work?

Tell them your window doesn't work and they'll ask you to get out.

Though that messes with the whole if you open your door, they automatically get to search your car.

[s_stabeler]

um, opening a car door from the inside shouldn't be considered consent to search. indeed, even from the outside, I'd be dubious.)- Though i'm of the view that consent should be unambiguous- so if you have no probable cause- or warrant- then i'm inclined to say that consent should be pretty much limited to situations where, in response to the question "can I search your car" the answer is yes.

[protege]

Point out where Ninja_Sushi said they'd prefer the cop shooting first. I'll wait.

I thought it was implied. If not, my bad.

Back to the beginning--I don't know how it is in other states, but in Pennsylvania, there's really no "protocol" for traffic stops. That is, if the cops ask for your license and registration...you're to give it to them. No mention of having to announce that you're getting it either.

Also in PA, there's no need for the cops to get a warrant to search your vehicle. That changed earlier this year. They still have to have "probable cause" though.

[Titi]

To the people posting about announcing your intentions, what do you do when that makes you look suspicious to the cop and they call for back up?

I had that happen to me. My friend was pulled over by a state trooper for a possible DUI (she wasn't) and when I was asked for my ID, I announced that I was going for my purse to get my ID and the guy called for backup because I was acting suspiciously and he was afraid of what I would pull out of my purse. WTF! Luckily for me the backup that came knew me.