Burger King Apple Pie Guy

[Greenday]

Don't make this out to be bigger than it is. He bought all of the apple pies, not all of the burgers, chicken, fish, fries, and onion rings.

Exactly. The kid won't starve because he didn't get his damn apple pie.

[HYHYBT]

Exactly. The kid won't starve because he didn't get his damn apple pie.

Introduce the kid to the wonders of the Hershey pie and he'll never want apple again

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

I would throw out the argument the guy couldn't have known everything as specious because in most cases when people make decisions regarding strangers, the person has insufficient information. We are creatures of imperfect information even when we know someone really well.

Dude did a dick move. Mother, autistic or tantrum filled child should have left in the first place. I'll give a whole lot of leeway for parents with their kids in a Subway or in a place where one cannot leave easily. But no, if you show no fucks given towards your fellow customers I'm not going to overly judge the person that spites you in such a first world problem way to be barely worthy of note in that kid's life.

[NecCat]

Mother, autistic or tantrum filled child should have left in the first place. I'll give a whole lot of leeway for parents with their kids in a Subway or in a place where one cannot leave easily. But no, if you show no fucks given towards your fellow customers I'm not going to overly judge the person that spites you in such a first world problem way to be barely worthy of note in that kid's life.

Except I know from talking to other parents that my kid is not unique in this, he's pretty happy cheerful kid, unless he's hungry. I know, if that whiny, sulky pouty, tantrumy behaviour starts, I'll look at the time - oh shit, I'm 40 minutes late on lunch. If the reason a kid has meltdowns is hunger I would suggest that leaving a restaurant that serves food quickly serves no ones best interest

[siead_lietrathua]

If the reason a kid has meltdowns is hunger I would suggest that leaving a restaurant that serves food quickly serves no ones best interest

yeah, but if it's a fast food place, they tend to have these wonderous things called drive-throughs, where noone has to put up with a kid's meltdown except the parent, and one poor sap at the window. you don't have to drag a meltdowning kid into a burgerking/ mcdonalds/ etc.

[s_stabeler]

my point was that it really wasn't the guy's place to decide to deny the kid what he wants. He was a fellow patron- not an employee, who would have more excuse.

Also, while I mentioned a reason the mother could have been justified in her actions, I wasn't saying that was why he was a dick- I was merely pointing out that we only have the word of the guy whop bought the pies- and that we don't know if the mother's actions were exaggerated. ( and I can see an otherwise good mother reacting poorly on being confronted by someone about her kid anyway)

[Hyena Dandy]

yeah, but if it's a fast food place, they tend to have these wonderous things called drive-throughs, where noone has to put up with a kid's meltdown except the parent, and one poor sap at the window. you don't have to drag a meltdowning kid into a burgerking/ mcdonalds/ etc.

There are a lot of things she could have done differently. I'm not saying she was perfect. But at worst she did something stupid, while he did something malicious.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Except I know from talking to other parents that my kid is not unique in this, he's pretty happy cheerful kid, unless he's hungry. I know, if that whiny, sulky pouty, tantrumy behaviour starts, I'll look at the time - oh shit, I'm 40 minutes late on lunch. If the reason a kid has meltdowns is hunger I would suggest that leaving a restaurant that serves food quickly serves no ones best interest

I disagree. I think it doesn't serve your interest or the child's interest. But it would serve the interest of everyone else just fine for you to leave.

The sine qua non of a tantrum in a confined space is being in the confined space. If you actually care about the people around you, you can leave and make other arrangements. If you stay, you are prioritizing yourself and your child above the comfort of eveyone around you.

I don't think you'd be a horrible person for doing it, but I am saying you are inconveniencing others and they may react accordingly. And if you can get the child fed elsewhere or remove the child long enough for it to subside, THEN get the food no one's going to complain.

It's a question of priorities and who is going to be inconvenienced honestly.

--Edit

I should add, it's an inconvenience most people tolerate and are OK with. But I wouldn't discount that it may be extremely grating for others who may be in a hurry, have had a horrible day, or otherwise might not be in the mood.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I will say this; one thing that annoys me is when people come up with "But what if the child was autistic/disabled/AHDD/an alien?" So fucking what. Autistic and disabled kids can be taught to behave in public, you know. I myself have autism and had I behaved like that in a Burger King I would have been dragged out and taken home minus the treat. Yes, I had meltdowns, but the best way for my mum to deal with one was to remove me from what was causing it; ie, the crowded area. I can't talk for every autistic, but a key trigger of meltdowns for me is crowded, noisy areas. Nowadays I generally cope by playing music in my head but as a kid, before I learned to do that, it was a problem.

So basically, why can't people just accept that this was a neurotypical, bratty kid who threw a temper tantrum cuz he wanted pie? They do exist; I see them at work all the time, and I typically see their parents give in to them.

[Kheldarson]

It's more pointing out the fact that this guy doesn't know the full story. Granted, we don't either, but he's the one who decided to be spiteful in order to "teach a lesson". The issue here is that he didn't teach a lesson, and if the child did have any alternate issues beyond brattiness, he may have made things worse.

[siead_lietrathua]

he may not have taught one to the kid. but i bet the mom learned a lesson about controlling her kid in public. because, when other people are affected, they may just push back.

[Gravekeeper]

If the facts of the matter are as indicated in the original story I can't say I have any sympathy. My sympathy ends when your child starts dropping the F-bomb and destroying things. Especially expensive electronics. If your child is that committed to a tantrum you need to leave. A tantrum is an attempt to get the child's way. Fulfilling his demand only teaches him it works and reinforces the behaviour.

As for special needs, no. This is not special needs. There's a big difference between an autistic child having a meltdown and a child having a tantrum. You don't need to be any sort of expert to spot it either. A tantrum is a ploy for attention to get the child's way. An autistic meltdown is just that. An autistic child having a meltdown will not be looking for attention or indeed have any awareness of the social situation around them at all. They've lost all behavioral control of themselves. They can only ride it out and may not have any awareness of external stimuli whatsoever.

Even if there were other behaviour issues causing a tantrum fulfilling the demand of sad tantrum is never ever the right thing to do regardless.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Even if there were other behaviour issues causing a tantrum fulfilling the demand of sad tantrum is never ever the right thing to do regardless.

This, exactly. My meltdowns were often silent ones, where I'd inflict harm on myself by screwing up my face and pressing my temples. They'd end with me having a raging headache and aching all over. The only thing my mum could do would be to remove me from the situation and try and calm me down. A neurotypical child tantruming is different. The difference is obvious, and this mother did just what I've seen other parents do; she didn't bother to correct his behaviour, remove him from the situation or even admininster a stern word. I know that small kids can get frustrated when they don't get what they want, but giving into them isn't the answer.

While the man wasn't doing a good thing by buying all the apple pies, I can understand why he did it. I've been in the situation where a child is screeching and I've had a hard day, and instead of attending to her child the mum is happily chatting away on her phone and ignoring the child's shrieks. Sometimes you've got to understand that since you have to share this world with others, you have to think of the other people around you who might not appreciate your child's attempt to break the sound barrier the same way that you do. And, goes without saying, if they're just being a brat, as you're the parent and the one in charge, it's up to you to do something about it.

Speaking for myself, I'm far more sympathetic towards parents who are actively doing something than I am towards oblivious or not caring parents who inflict their badly behaved brats on the rest of us. If I see a harrassed mother who's obviously embarrassed to death at the way her child is acting, I'll often say a few words of sympathy to them. But believe me, if your kid is swearing, throwing expensive stuff around, hitting you and acting like a little shit, you'll get no sympathy from me.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Sorry, random topic tangent but I wonder if the mother's reaction (and the reaction just about everyone has seen) has to do with the void of negative reinforcement based on what people know works in parenting in terms of corporal punishment.

A lot of people got the message hitting only hurts your child and doesn't work anyway. But perhaps of them overly internalized that message to mean punishing your child in any way doesn't work and therefore ignore. My mother wouldn't even let me in a restaurant if she thought I was going to make a scene. She would remove me if I did.

[siead_lietrathua]

i saw this on another board, and thought it was perfect in response to the claims that the child acting up could possibly be autistic and not tantruming. not my writing, just copypasta.

"What I can't stand about parents like this is that they expect every consideration under the sun, but they refuse to acknowledge that other people might be dealing with the exact same problem. The person glaring at you because your kid is shrieking his head off and you're not even making an attempt to remove him from the situation or quiet him? Might be suffering from a debilitating migraine condition, and your kid just sparked a new one. The cashier grimacing as your kid throws a tantrum? Might be on the autistic spectrum herself, and your kid is triggering her, and this is the best she can do against her own meltdowns. The parent glaring at you, might have an autistic child of their own and is wondering why you're not either helping your child navigate his meltdown or removing him from his triggers.

These kinds of parents are very quick to defend themselves from judgement with lines like "you just don't know what's wrong with the child throwing the tantrum!" Which is true. You don't know. It could be any number of disabilities, disorders, or just plain bad parenting. But the problem is, when you are in public, chances are your child is not the only person there with some kind of disability. Your kid isn't the only one suffering. But parents like this want everyone to give consideration to their kids' disability, they want everyone to give consideration to their kids' triggers. But the never once, ever consider what they're doing to someone else."

even if the kid was autistic, the mother was still a toolbag for putting the kid (and everyone else) in that situation.