Rehab: Is this right?

[Rageaholic]

Here's a hypothetical: Say Joe has been arrested for a DUI (first offense). Joe's on probation meaning he is not to consume any alchohol, drugs, or anything of that nature (and he will get random tests to ensure he's obeying it). However, since Joe has an addiction problem, he decides to attend an out patient rehab program. On his first day, he fails the test, gets kicked out of the program, and his probation officer is informed of the violation.

First of all, what kind of a program kicks someone out for failing one test? They're supposed to help addicts, not give up on them for one slip up.

But even more puzzling, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY INFORM THE PROBATION OFFICER??!!!! What happened to confidentiality? Keep in mind, Joe went to rehab out of his own free will, it wasn't mandated by the probation officers. He was admitting he has a problem and taking steps to solve it (something that takes a lot of balls). And because of this, he's kicked out and might go to jail? What's wrong with this picture?

I'd like to say this is a made up hypothetical, but it's actually not. This very thing just happened to someone in my family and I find myself in a state of disbelief. But I'm wondering if this is normal for rehab programs or if 'Joe' just went to a bad one.

[Gravekeeper]

That sounds amazingly counter-intuitive. I don't think it's the norm. Though there could be some state or local fuckery laws in effect that mandated they inform his probation officer?

[Rageaholic]

^

I'm wondering if it's some state law. Considering the crap groups such as MADD try to legislate, I wouldn't put it past them to pass more intrusive laws because TEH CHILDRENZ.

[NecCat]

The rehab programs that I know of will all kick someone out for 'one slip-up'. If you can't make it in rehab, when you have every opportunity, there is no way you are going to make it out there. More to the point, one of the hardest things a recovering addict has to learn is personal responsibility and honesty. Anyone addicted to something enough that they need rehab has been lying to their friends, family, boss, police, THEMSELVES for a while. Unless they can step up and deal with things honestly they will not succeed. Failing a drug test means that lies have been told (through sneaking access to their drug of choice) to the councilers, the other patients. Any rehab program I have seen requires the patient to understand and agree to all of the rules, (once the detox portion is over anyways) or they will be kicked out. Usually once kicked out they will not be allowed to come back for a period of time (say a year) or ever. However getting kicked out of one rehab program should not disqualify them from attending others.

The bottom line is if there is no consequence for failing, people will continue to fail. Usually when people go to rehab of their own choice, it is because they Need to get off their chosen substance or their life will be over (figuratively or literally). If the people attending know that they will get kicked out for breaking the rules, it becomes important to them not to have 'just one hit', the price becomes too high. If people did not get kicked out for 'just one slip' there would be nothing but slips happening at rehab. It's not until someone has been clean for a while that they can start to see some hope for a life of being clean, and most people really aren't there the first month or two of rehab.

I don't know of any rehab program that will release information about the patient with the following exceptions:
- releasing needed information to an emergency contact
- releasing needed information to someone the patient has requested (a boss, for job security, a family lawyer, for child visitation etc)
- releasing information to people involved for mandated rehab (court ordered, family court ordered, work ordered etc)
- law enforcement, if a future crime is known to be going to happen, or a crime is happening at the moment - this is mandatory, if a crime is being committed or is going to be committed, they are required to report it, if a crime has been committed in the past, there is no reason to report it.

I would suspect either your family member agreed to disclosure to his probation officer (and is now lying to family about it) in hopes of getting less punishment, having the probation officer bat for him when it's time to renew/forgive probation, or having the probation officer 'get off his back', that the family member was committing a crime at the time the rehab centre called law enforcement (leaving while drunk and driving for example), that the rehab was court ordered, and the rehab centre was mandated to report progress to the court or probation officer.

Either that or breaking probation is considered enough of a crime that the rehab centre is required to report it, but that sees a bit out there.

[Rageaholic]

Turns out he wasn't kicked out... yet... (he has to see some doctor, to determine if he should be admitted to IN patient). They also didn't tell the probation officer about the fuck up (just that he's in rehab, though why would they even do that?).

Though that wouldn't be the first time the probation officer got an earfull. His douchebag therapist told the officer he was still drinking, which I know is a violation of the confidentiality act. Though this was court mandated, he wanted to see another one. Stupid probation officer wouldn't allow it for some reason. (which also seems fishy).

And I still say kicking someone out for screwing up on their first day is counter productive. Aren't those the people who need help the most?

[NecCat]

Usually the first day(s) is detox, unless they have been recommended by a detox program. People come in using, go through detox, then agree to the rehab. If they have been recommended by a detox program they will have been given the rules before showing up, and know what to expect. If this was his first contact with the rehab program, kicking him out sounds like a bad move, unless they asked him when he was last using, and he lied. That kind of lying will get you kicked out too.

If the therapist was court mandated, the therapist may be perfectly within his rights to disclose information on the therapy to the court and their agents, (just like a court mandated driver safety course will inform the court if you passed or failed) and that is probably why he wasn't allowed to get a different one. If he finds his own therapist that one doesn't work for the courts, and isn't allowed to keep the courts informed of his progress.

[Gravekeeper]

The rehab programs that I know of will all kick someone out for 'one slip-up'. If you can't make it in rehab, when you have every opportunity, there is no way you are going to make it out there. More to the point, one of the hardest things a recovering addict has to learn is personal responsibility and honesty. Anyone addicted to something enough that they need rehab has been lying to their friends, family, boss, police, THEMSELVES for a while. Unless they can step up and deal with things honestly they will not succeed.

First of all, op is talking about an out patient program, not a rehab facility. Second of all, it was his first day. So there was no detox period.

Third of all, going to rehab is outright admitting you cannot control your addiction. Punishing someone for admitting they cannot control their addiction on the first day of the program they went to to help them control their addiction is really counter intuitive.

The bottom line is if there is no consequence for failing, people will continue to fail.

That is a painfully simplistic and ineffective way of looking at the problem of addiction. If someone's addiction has driven them into a rehab program they have already experienced the consequences. If breaking an addiction was as simple as you outline, we wouldn't have any problems with it in the first place.

I would suspect either your family member agreed to disclosure to his probation officer (and is now lying to family about it)

Wow, that is a massive assumption to be making about someone's family member based off one forum post on the internet. >.>

[NecCat]

Wow, that is a massive assumption to be making about someone's family member based off one forum post on the internet. >.>

That's more based on personal and first hand experience with addicts than a post on the internet. Addicts lie, all of them, a lot, whenever it is convenient or easier than the telling the truth. Recovering/recovered addicts get an opportunity to build trust again.

[Panacea]

Turns out he wasn't kicked out... yet... (he has to see some doctor, to determine if he should be admitted to IN patient). They also didn't tell the probation officer about the fuck up (just that he's in rehab, though why would they even do that?).

Though that wouldn't be the first time the probation officer got an earfull. His douchebag therapist told the officer he was still drinking, which I know is a violation of the confidentiality act. Though this was court mandated, he wanted to see another one. Stupid probation officer wouldn't allow it for some reason. (which also seems fishy).

And I still say kicking someone out for screwing up on their first day is counter productive. Aren't those the people who need help the most?

OK, reality check here.

Drug addicts and alcoholics lie. That's rule number one. At this point in time you can't take anything your relative tells you at face value. EVERYTHING he tells you is going to be self serving, twisted to meet his immediate needs.

If the program he was in was court mandated, then his therapist reports directly to the court, through the probation office. It is his DUTY to tell the probation officer. Normal rules of confidentiality are different. He doesn't get to pick his therapist. That's part of the treatment and accountability, and complaining about this is part of his disease; he wants a new therapist because he can't manipulate the court appointed one (these guys have a lot of experience in dealing with addicts).

I think there is a lot more to this story than your relative is telling you. If he is in an alcohol diversion program mandated by the court, they won't kick him out for one violation. However, he'll have to see the judge again, and he will have to go back to the program. If he continues to drink, his probation will be revoked and he'll do his time for the DUI.

He either gets with the program or he doesn't. It's up to him. He has a chance here to escape a criminal record. He is BLOWING it.

And Rageaholic . . . everyone in your family needs to sit down and think about whether or not they are enabling his behavior by taking his side on this. As long as he thinks he can get his family to buy into his BS he will continue to drink because he thinks he has permission.

He needs the family to take a united front and demand accountability; no more excuses.

[Rageaholic]

^

Believe me, I'm aware that addicts are compulsive liars. But for the sake of discussion, lets assume it did happen this way (very likely considering he has close family backing him). What kind of place threatens to tell the probation officer, risking him being put in jail? They're supposed to help him, but feed him to the wolves.

As for the therapist, I believe it was mandated that he see a therapist, but there wasn't any specifications other than showing proof he's attending. He had to switch a couple of times because he's had some real shitty therapists. And idiot probation officer said no, he can't switch until he's off probation (which should be soon).

[Panacea]

^

Believe me, I'm aware that addicts are compulsive liars. But for the sake of discussion, lets assume it did happen this way (very likely considering he has close family backing him). What kind of place threatens to tell the probation officer, risking him being put in jail? They're supposed to help him, but feed him to the wolves.

As for the therapist, I believe it was mandated that he see a therapist, but there wasn't any specifications other than showing proof he's attending. He had to switch a couple of times because he's had some real shitty therapists. And idiot probation officer said no, he can't switch until he's off probation (which should be soon).

The threat of jail is what keeps the addict honest. Your relative isn't going to cooperate with therapy unless he is forced to because he doesn't think he is sick. The only reason he is in therapy at all is because he got a DUI. So if the program has no teeth, it won't work.

And here's the thing; these drug and alcohol diversion programs actually DO work. The addicts who comply with the program do get better and have a very low recividism (relapse) rate.

If he was mandated to see a therapist, then that therapist reports to the court. That's part of these diversion programs. His PO won't let him switch because he sees what you don't: that this guy is manipulative and gaming the system, running away from therapists who are telling him things he doesn't want to hear and holding him accountable for the fact he continues to drink.

You've bought wholesale into this guy's BS, and you're risking becoming an enabler.

[BlaqueKatt]

His PO won't let him switch because he sees what you don't: that this guy is manipulative and gaming the system, running away from therapists who are telling him things he doesn't want to hear and holding him accountable for the fact he continues to drink.

You've bought wholesale into this guy's BS, and you're risking becoming an enabler.

yup "shitty therapists*" don't last, they usually either don't keep clients, or get reported. I've seen a ton of them for different issues, I've had exactly one that I reported, and there were a few that I had a personality clash with, but that was *on me* not the therapist being bad, and they recommended another therapist when it wasn't working(they do that, they want people to get help, and are usually not concerned who it's from).

*I'd consider it quite suspect that he's had "several", and I'd also question what made him consider them to be bad.

[Gravekeeper]

yup "shitty therapists*" don't last, they usually either don't keep clients, or get reported.

Really depends on the framework around them. If there's any tax dollars involved you'd be surprised how long someone shitty at their job can keep it. Especially if contracted services are involved. Depending on where you are in the US, the entire legal system around you can be a shambling mess designed to get you back in a cell because it profits a private company.

[Rageaholic]

No, I don't buy into his BS (if anything, I'm the one who's extremely skeptical with what he says), but if I had to guess I'd say he was accurate on this count. He has nothing to gain by lying and if it turns out he's lying, his lies will show (they have before).

Again: The rehab isn't court mandated. He's doing this out of his own free will. He already did what was required of his probation conditions. Now, I don't know how the hell they'd get the information on his probation conditions (I admit that's suspicious), but I do know that we've been trying to get him to go to rehab for months and the thing that's been holding him back is fear of the probation officer finding out and using it against him.

Though one counsolation is that when dumbass therapist told probation officer, it wasn't used against him in court (supposidly). (sorry about my spelling, my keyboard is acting goofy).

[Panacea]

Again: The rehab isn't court mandated. He's doing this out of his own free will. He already did what was required of his probation conditions. Now, I don't know how the hell they'd get the information on his probation conditions (I admit that's suspicious), but I do know that we've been trying to get him to go to rehab for months and the thing that's been holding him back is fear of the probation officer finding out and using it against him.

Though one counsolation is that when dumbass therapist told probation officer, it wasn't used against him in court (supposidly). (sorry about my spelling, my keyboard is acting goofy).

Are you sure the rehab wasn't court mandated? Was someone in the family in court with this guy to confirm it? Again, he may have lied about the conditions of his probation.

In any case, people on probation have greatly restricted rights; you agree to searches of your person or home at any time and your PO has a lot of access and discretion in what he does in terms of violating his charges.

Usually a condition of any probation or parole is no alcohol or drugs. Any violation can land you back in jail.

That's not the rehab's problem. They can't have a patient who continues to drink; it endangers the recovery of the rest of the group. So if you violate the rules, you have to go.

And I'm betting he's been caught more than once violating the rehab rules and his probation conditions.