Voices

[Kuari]

Lemme see...I live with a child who is schizophrenic complete with voices - it was me that dragged him to see a mental health specialist to find out if the voices in his head were something other than supernatural shit going down because those voices bothered him (and I did NOT suggest to him that they might be supernatural in nature), and I am bipolar with the depressive lows outweighing the manic highs and currently medicated for it. I'm not pulling theories out of my ass over here. My issue here is with the wholesale discounting of supernatural phenomena. I am most certainly NOT the sort of person who believes that illnesses are caused by spirits, demons, or anything else - I may be pagan but I'm not a fucking idiot as you seem to be so nicely suggesting, GK.

If Gilhemi is not bothered by the voices and does not care, then all the power to him.

[NecCat]

Yet, whenever I mention them in conversation (online) someone inevitably suggests I seek mental help. I always ask 'why'. Why should I suppress voices that are no threat to me or others? Why should I go on dangerous psycho-pharmaceuticals that will only lower my quality of life?

It's been explained to you why you should seek help in this forum, I won't repeat it. I'll just note that seeking help does NOT mean you will go on medication, and it almost certainly means you WONT be institutionalized. The basis for being medicated is almost always along the lines of - how is your life going? If you are as clear and lucid most of the time as you seem to be posting here and on CS, if you are holding down a job, or doing hobbies, volunteer work, visiting family, paying your rent/mortgage more or less on time, eating every day or so you are living your life fine. There will not be a big push to force unwanted medications upon you, or suppress voices that are a comfort to you. There will be some peace of mind if you find out that there are not serious underlying conditions causing symptoms.

However, if the symptoms are caused by a mental disorder or a physical one, the possibility exists for future problems that you can't manage on your own, having a proper diagnosis will make treatments more favourable in the future, should some become needed, and will also allow for ongoing medical supervision, to ensure that you continue being able to live your life well. Huh, it turns out I will repeat some of it.

Schizophrenia also doesn't always mean hallucinations or delusions that are what we would think of as "crazy" ( ie violent, maniacal, etc ). Its a malfunction with perception.

I could hug you for that. So many people are terrified of the diagnosis schizophrenic, and terrified of you when they find out you hear voices, like it automatically makes you a dangerous potential serial killer. I am not now, and have never been, a danger to others.

[telecom_goddess]

DID is such a nebulous spectrum that presents as part of so many other things that its existence itself as a separate disorder rather than a symptom of other disorders is still a matter of some medical debate. I'd say its the least understood and least clearly defined of all the mental disorders. If only by the nature of the symptoms alone.

I'm going to avoid the potential mine field of multiple personality's rights though. >.>

good plan. And yeah it's under medical debate for sure. And VERY misunderstood by most people. And it's a challenge to have partners with it for sure but I love every second of it.

I really hope the OP gets some kind of help anyway.

[s_stabeler]

I could hug you for that. So many people are terrified of the diagnosis schizophrenic, and terrified of you when they find out you hear voices, like it automatically makes you a dangerous potential serial killer. I am not now, and have never been, a danger to others.

IIRC, it's paranoid schizophrenia that's the problem, and it's the paranoia that is the actual dangerous part. ( basically, if all you trust are the voices in your head...)

[Gravekeeper]

Lemme see...I live with a child who is schizophrenic complete with voices

Then you of all people should know better.

I am bipolar with the depressive lows outweighing the manic highs and currently medicated for it. I'm not pulling theories out of my ass over here.

Yes, you are. Also, do you really want to get into a mental illness dick measuring contest? It would be pointless but hey! Could be fun! =p

My issue here is with the wholesale discounting of supernatural phenomena.

That was obviously not what we were discussing and a separate debate entirely.

I am most certainly NOT the sort of person who believes that illnesses are caused by spirits, demons, or anything else - I may be pagan but I'm not a fucking idiot as you seem to be so nicely suggesting, GK.

You don't get to walk back on it now. You clearly stated, and I quote:

Yes, there may be a different reason behind Gilhemi hearing voices, but it is not fair to completely discount it either.

So yes, you did suggest a supernatural possibility for an illness. Contrary to your protests.

If Gilhemi is not bothered by the voices and does not care, then all the power to him.

He/she is not hearing voices for no reason. It would be best if he/she made sure the reason is not dangerous or life threatening.

It's been explained to you why you should seek help in this forum, I won't repeat it. I'll just note that seeking help does NOT mean you will go on medication, and it almost certainly means you WONT be institutionalized.

^ This. Medication is a last resort used when the illness is impacting quality of life. Management is much preferable to medication. Any doctor worth their salt isn't just going to declare a diagnosis and dispense meds. It was several months and an ER trip before I got any prescriptions. Then another ER trip and a psych evaluation before I got a final diagnosis.

I could hug you for that. So many people are terrified of the diagnosis schizophrenic, and terrified of you when they find out you hear voices, like it automatically makes you a dangerous potential serial killer. I am not now, and have never been, a danger to others.

Yes, there's a really bad stigma attached to mental illness. Especially schizophrenia as no one understands what it is aside from the way its portrayed in movies and TV. Which goes for a lot of mental illnesses. A big problem with it is if someone is living with and managing a mental illness, you wouldn't know by looking at them on the street. So people only see the worst case scenarios and think that's the norm.

People tend to think I'm going to start flashing back, flip out and choke someone out on the bus while insisting their a Communist whenever I admit my PTSD. Which is wildly incorrect. ( It would be someone talking on a phone and I would be screaming something about account numbers >.> ).

[Shangri-laschild]

I have an odd relationship with my brain. I don't necessarily hear all the different bits as their own distinct voices but I do tend to see the different parts of my brain as separate bits that all mostly/sort of work together. I've been diagnosed with ADD though I don't know how much of the way I think is common to that or just a me thing. I grew up with a mind that I had trouble understanding though, that would have sudden excited out of control moments and times when I couldn't think clearly. I also love taking things apart and seeing how they work. Putting my brain in a context I could understand....it was like everything clicked and I've thought of my brain like that ever since. It took me a long time to figure out how I work and how to be the one in control of the various things that come with ADD. It's not perfect, it's more like dealing with a young child who mostly behaves. I'm still the one in charge and know how to handle, deal with, and work around the stuff that comes up. It's a lot more in depth really than all that even explains but my point is that I get having a brain that works differently and enjoying it. I wouldn't trade it for anything despite the problems that come with.

I do however echo what others have said that it's not a bad idea to look into it. I get to some extent not wanting medication. I was medicated throughout middle school and high school for anxiety. I personally went through therapy once I was on my own and refused to go back on medication for anxiety unless it got to a point where I was a danger to myself and others and therapy wasn't enough. I am still on ADD medication but that's something where I have weighed what it gives vs what it takes away and decided for myself personally that it's a good choice. Looking into it doesn't automatically mean medication. Looking into what was going on with me helped me not only better manage it but better work with it to utilize it. And you don't always realize the things that are going hand in hand with something as well so even if there don't seem to be complications, it's not a bad idea to look into it further.

[Hyena Dandy]

That was obviously not what we were discussing and a separate debate entirely.

That obviously is what we are discussing here. You're objecting to the fact that I did not phrase my suggestion that someone talk to a professional in such a way that I also said "I don't believe in the supernatural." But I totally do. The only difference between our advice is yours had a wholesale discounting of supernatural phenomenon, and mine did not. I certainly did not, as you say, give it the same weight.

I'd have probably phrased it the same way if it wasn't a mental illness. If someone says they've been coughing for days and think they're being tickled by fairies, I would say that perhaps they are being tickled by fairies, but I still think they should go to a doctor, because there's a lot worse things than "Fairy tickles" that can cause coughs, and they need to make sure it's not one of those.

[Peppergirl]

Just a reminder: Despite the looser rules at Fratching, we are still required to show at least a modicum of respect when disagreeing with one another.

Also, it's ok when a thread veers somewhat off-topic so lets move along from that as well, shall we?

In other words, play nice.

[Gravekeeper]

That obviously is what we are discussing here.

No, it isn't. I specifically said "supernatural input". You specifically said it was a possibility. I also specifically said this was not a debate.

You're objecting to the fact that I did not phrase my suggestion that someone talk to a professional in such a way that I also said "I don't believe in the supernatural."

That is not what I am objecting to at all. I was objecting because suggesting the possibility of a supernatural origin to someone that may have schizophrenia is irresponsible of you and could prevent that person from seeking medical advice. Due to the nature of schizophrenia itself.

But I totally do. The only difference between our advice is yours had a wholesale discounting of supernatural phenomenon, and mine did not. I certainly did not, as you say, give it the same weight.

I didn't say you did. Given that I was clearing talking to Kuari in that post. As for why I discounted supernatural phenomena here, see above.

I'd have probably phrased it the same way if it wasn't a mental illness. If someone says they've been coughing for days and think they're being tickled by fairies, I would say that perhaps they are being tickled by fairies, but I still think they should go to a doctor, because there's a lot worse things than "Fairy tickles" that can cause coughs, and they need to make sure it's not one of those.

The key difference as you unknowingly point out, is mental illness. The person coughing and thinking its fairies would agree with you and go to a doctor. The person with a mental illness may take your words as confirmation of their paranoid delusion that it may be fairies and insist it is fairies. Then refuse to go to a doctor.

You do not confirm a delusion or go along with a delusion. Especially not as a method of trying to get the person to co-operate with you.

[Greenday]

You do not confirm a delusion or go along with a delusion. Especially not as a method of trying to get the person to co-operate with you.

It works well for Alzheimer patients but I wouldn't suggest it for any other health related issue.

Personally, I think it'd be borderline criminal to suggest it could be something other than a mental illness. That's the kind of thing that a person with mental illness will grasp at and refuse to get help for.

[Gravekeeper]

It works well for Alzheimer patients but I wouldn't suggest it for any other health related issue.

Personally, I think it'd be borderline criminal to suggest it could be something other than a mental illness. That's the kind of thing that a person with mental illness will grasp at and refuse to get help for.

Exactly, thank you.

And yes, it can work well with Alzheimer's because of the nature of it. Since its a neurological disorder not a mental illness.

[protege]

It works well for Alzheimer patients but I wouldn't suggest it for any other health related issue.

It also works on some stroke victims. My grandmother, who passed away in 2010 , suffered a few "mini-strokes" and at least two serious ones. One of the more-serious strokes was enough to kill her. Before she died, the others were enough to damage her long-term memory.

When her mind started failing, she had already outlived her husband by 20 years. That didn't stop her from calling multiple times during the night...asking where he was, and when he was coming home. It didn't matter what we'd tell her, she would just call again.

I wasn't about to tell her he was dead--she would cry and get upset. Rather than do that, I'd bend the truth a little. For years, my grandfather's routine was to get up early and meet his friends at McDonald's for coffee and to shoot the bull. By 2009-10, most of his friends had died. So rather than tell her the truth, I'd tell her that "Grandpa met his buddies for coffee, and he'll be home soon." She accepted that explanation...until she would ask again a few minutes later.

[Hyena Dandy]

Nothing Gil has said has given me the impression that they're delusional, only that they're probably hallucinating. On the contrary, Gil seems totally lucid, completely open to the idea that there is no supernatural cause at all. "I don't know what it is, it might be supernatural" is different from "It's definitely supernatural, you can't convince me otherwise." I'd be worried if Gil was insistent that the ONLY explanation that made sense was angels. But s/he wasn't. Similarly, "It feels as real to me as anything else" is different from "It's real, I'm sure of it." In the list of suggestions, one of them was "This isn't real." A delusional person wouldn't have suggested that. So I don't think I was feeding into any delusions.

[Gravekeeper]

So I don't think I was feeding into any delusions.

You don't reinforce hallucinations either.

Please, please take a moment out and actually look into what schizophrenia is. This isn't a matter of being lucid. Schizophrenics are often high functioning, even creative and intelligent people. Most of them are not dangerous in any way and you'd likely never know they had a mental illness. But the best thing you can do for someone you suspect is schizophrenic is get them to a doctor. Because if it is schizophrenia, it does not get better if left untreated, it gets worse until it does start to impede them functioning in day to day life. The challenge with getting someone with schizophrenia to a doctor is that 9 times out of 10 they don't want to go or don't think anything is wrong.

This is why I am upset with you and Kuari. By acknowledging the possibility of supernatural origin, you are giving a possible out to avoid seeking medical advice to someone who may or may not be highly receptive to embracing delusions. Especially those that allow them to avoid a doctor.

It was irresponsible of both of you.

[Eisa]

This sounds like something on the Schizophrenia spectrum. Schizophrenia is a Dissociative Disorder that covers a wide range of mental disorders that share a common aspect of disorganized thinking, emotions and behaviors.

I just have to comment about this, because schizophrenia isn't a dissociative disorder. It has nothing to do with dissociative disorders. The only reason that I've seen people confuse it as such is when they mix it up with dissociative identity disorder (which is actually a dissociative disorder ).

That said, like other people have said, it probably would be best to see a professional, OP. Since the voices are just there and aren't telling you to do anything bad or anything like that, it's doubtful that you would be sectioned, and you can always refuse medication even if you're offered it. But it might be good to rule out things (like GK mentioned actual brain problems going on, and I don't mean schizophrenia). It's possible to have auditory hallucinations and not be schizophrenic, but it would still honestly be a good thing to check out, money and availability of medical care pending.