Is it time to bring out the "stocks"/bring back public shaming?

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Not arguing for or against here, but the reason you have fear of a minimum income (whether the people we're talking about are economically aware or not) is that without some sort of associated boom in technology or creation of domestic wealth, primarily you've reassigned wealth from the middle class to the poor. Add to that the upturn in money in the bottom means price inflation (from increased demand from a group whose marginal propensity to spend is much higher) which means especially on the lower end of the middle class, they are now impoverished as well.

Now if the lower end of your economy then starts making goods to compensate, great. But if there's no additional industry and that money is still going to cheap labor in other countries, you've killed more of the middle class and are importing more goods out of taxes.

Just saying it's a thorny issue when you're talking how the economy would actually react. And in a lot of ways, globalization makes it a lot harder.

[Gravekeeper]

Not arguing for or against here, but the reason you have fear of a minimum income (whether the people we're talking about are economically aware or not) is that without some sort of associated boom in technology or creation of domestic wealth, primarily you've reassigned wealth from the middle class to the poor.

No, actually, quite the opposite.

See, we already have a minimum income. Its called social security / welfare / health care costs / insurance costs / law enforcement and crime costs / etc. The money is already there and is already being spent. In fact, its costing more money to not have a unified minimum income. Because the costs are spread out across a wide spectrum of different services ( and associated administrative overhead + government spending ) and reactionary instead of preventative expenses.

On our current course the economy actually will collapse without a guaranteed minimum income. Due to advancing technology eliminating jobs through increasing automation and information management + the increasing concentration of wealth at the top creating a larger wealth divide. We will simply run out of jobs and without a corresponding investment in health and education to broaden the job possibilities of the lower and middle class.....well, we'll probably end up with a full on peasant revolt again. Cept we'll be dragging CEOs off their yachts to the guillotine instead of the nobility.

[cindybubbles]

Right, correction: Its not personally and grossly profitable to the people with the power to do something about it. >.>

I think it all boils down to the seven deadly sins; the most prominent ones here are pride, wrath and greed.

[Andara Bledin]

See, we already have a minimum income. Its called social security / welfare / health care costs / insurance costs / law enforcement and crime costs / etc.

Precisely.

How does it feel to know that the Public is subsidizing Walmart's wages because their wage cost is externalized to welfare because half their work force doesn't earn a livable wage?

As a member of the public, I'm personally outraged that places that underpay their employees are getting rich and we the people are paying for it. I'm even more outraged that we the people allow this shit to continue.

[s_stabeler]

not to mention that the rich seem to want the solution to be that the poorest are forced to go without- and, incidentally, I've had arguments on a different forum with someone who'se arguably rich, who, when I pointed out that poor people physically can't afford healthcare, actually suggested that the choice between going to hospital or putting food on the table was good because it discouraged people from going to hospital - note that at no point was it suggested that it would be a case where hospitalisation was unnessecary. Nope, they sincerely believed that someone being effectively barred from access to healthcare was good.

not to mention that the same companies that pay sub-standard wages are the same ones with complicated corporate structures to minimise tax payments.

[Gravekeeper]

As a member of the public, I'm personally outraged that places that underpay their employees are getting rich and we the people are paying for it. I'm even more outraged that we the people allow this shit to continue.

This one completely baffles me to be honest. I legitimately don't understand why there aren't riots. -.-

[Andara Bledin]

This one completely baffles me to be honest. I legitimately don't understand why there aren't riots. -.-

The problem is the fact that most people like to think that one day they'll be one of those fat cats, and so they don't want to do something that'll upset what's waiting for them when they cease being temporarily embarrassed millionaires, even though the rules they won't change are also the ones that are going to keep them from ever becoming millionaires.

I work with one of these people. He's an otherwise intelligent guy, but he will vote for things that are objectively against his own best interests because they benefit an imaginary him that doesn't actually -and likely never will- exist.