*sigh* Here we go again...

[FMA_Fanatic]

Here we go again...and this is closer to where DaDairyDruid and I live. I really wanted to wake up to the see this on the news this morning after getting a cryptic text message from DaDairyDruid saying he was okay. He had to be at work at 3am this morning and I thought maybe he'd had an accident - there was some sort of nasty weather expected (no snow, thank goodness).

http://fox2now.com/2014/12/24/berkel...atal-shooting/

Currently people are protesting and staging die-ins, attempted to loot some businesses in the strip mall near the Mobile station. I guess it was too much to ask for a peaceful Christmas Eve and Christmas.

[Gravekeeper]

Talk about the absolute worst place and time.

[Greenday]

White cop killed a black person. Must be racism!

I get it, there's racism in the system every day and it's bizarre that it's taken this long for people to do something about it. But people need to stop rallying around every single white cop on black civilian shooting that happens. Don't rally around criminals. Don't rally around cop killers. Rally around 12 year old kids who get shot without a chance to give up. Rally around people who get pulled over for DWB. Rally around racist drug laws (Crack having a harsher sentence than Coke, despite being the same drug, just because of who uses which drug).

[Tama]

As an aside, not disagreeing, just wondering/curious. Isn't crack more dangerous than coke?

[Gravekeeper]

White cop killed a black person. Must be racism!

Well, the problem here is:

A) Rallying hasn't worked.
B) They've been living under systematic racism for decades.
C) The St Louis PD has absolutely zero integrity or credibility with the community.

Just the fact you can utter the statement "its bizarre that its taken this long for people to do something about it." encapsulates the entire problem. This isn't some sudden thing. We're not watching people finally take notice. We're watching them finally being pushed completely over the edge by decades of abuse.

Which poses a real problem ( and further highlights the existing problems ). We're telling them what they should or should not do. That they should be reasonable about this or that they should understand that. But they have never been extended that same respect so why should they listen?

You can't kick someone for decades then when they get angry and start kicking things themselves tell them they need to be reasonable and not kick things. Why would they listen to you? You're the one that's been kicking them.

[protege]

According to the articles, the perp was armed, and chose to point his 9mm at the officer. That's why he got shot. I'm sure that most people will start going on about how the officer didn't use his taser. Don't you have to wait for those things to charge up and fire? I've never been tased, but I'd think the second or two delay would be enough for the perp to get off a shot or two--the 9mm was said to be loaded at the time.

Why is it that people keep forgetting about the gun, and make the immediate jump to racism?

[Gravekeeper]

According to the articles, the perp was armed, and chose to point his 9mm at the officer. That's why he got shot. I'm sure that most people will start going on about how the officer didn't use his taser. Don't you have to wait for those things to charge up and fire? I've never been tased, but I'd think the second or two delay would be enough for the perp to get off a shot or two--the 9mm was said to be loaded at the time.

Why is it that people keep forgetting about the gun, and make the immediate jump to racism?

Not to rain on your narrative parade but no one is saying that and the protests have returned to calm after learning what had happened. Its easy to sit here and judge in hindsight because you have more information. But at the time the situation on the ground was another black teen shot by an officer. The police on scene didn't have an investigation done and a press release ready to explain to people what occurred. All they saw was another body on the ground.

As for people jumping to racism....really? Lets be honest here. Why wouldn't they? If 99% of the time racism is involved you're not going to hedge your bets and go "Hey, maybe THIS time it isn't!". ESPECIALLY lately when it seems like police can basically do no wrong even if they murder someone on camera.

As for the guy that pulled the gun on the cop. I'd love to know what was going through his head. The officer is really lucky on this one as the guy had plenty of time of time to shoot but didn't for some reason. Did he think he could scare the cop off or something?

Hopefully they can track down the other guy that ran and maybe get a better idea out of him. He looked just as shocked as the officer in the surveillance video.

[Greenday]

As an aside, not disagreeing, just wondering/curious. Isn't crack more dangerous than coke?

No. The main difference is method of use. Smoking it gets you higher quicker and it's more intense, but it doesn't last as long. Snorting it will take a little longer to kick in, but the high lasts longer despite not being as intense.

According to the articles, the perp was armed, and chose to point his 9mm at the officer. That's why he got shot. I'm sure that most people will start going on about how the officer didn't use his taser. Don't you have to wait for those things to charge up and fire? I've never been tased, but I'd think the second or two delay would be enough for the perp to get off a shot or two--the 9mm was said to be loaded at the time.

Why is it that people keep forgetting about the gun, and make the immediate jump to racism?

You don't use non-lethal means to protect yourself from a lethal force. That's how you end up dead. You respond to lethal force with lethal force. Some people would rather believe it's the police's fault these people end up dead and remove all personal responsibility from the person who attacked the cops in the first place.

[s_stabeler]

yeah, in this case, I actually agree with Grenday. It was a justified shot- there was a handgun, and it was actually pointed at the officer. At that point, it's fairly obviously a threat to use lethal force.(an officer does not need to have someone actually fire in order to use lethal force) Would a taser be an appropriate response? No. In this case, the threat to life is immediate- if the taser fails, you would almost certainly get shot. Therefore, since it is an IMMEDIATE threat to life, shooting the suspect is appropriate.

Basically, in this case, the race seems to be irrelevant- the criminal would be shot regardless of the races involved. Granted, the cop SHOULD face an investigation- but ONLY because its a good idea to investigate ALL cases of a cop shooting someone. I fully expect any investigation to confirm what the officer said.

[Gravekeeper]

No one said it wasn't a justified shooting. Despite the nebulous accusations of "some people" that Greenday and protege refer too. You point a gun at a cop like this you get shot, end of story. The officer has no obligation to try and use non-lethal force when you whip out a gun right in his face.

[kamn]

Slight correction.

The officer has a moral obligation to try and prevent casualties on any side. If the perp seems cooperative, but happens to have a gun in his hand, morally, the officer should try to talk him/her down.
Practically, an officer in danger is allowed to use whatever means he deems neecessary to end the threat to himself, including shooting another person.

[wolfie]

As an aside, not disagreeing, just wondering/curious. Isn't crack more dangerous than coke?

Depends on the kind of coke you're dealing with. The "nearly pure carbon" fuel can burn you, while "Atlanta Fizz" can make you fat and rot your teeth.

No. The main difference is method of use. Smoking it gets you higher quicker and it's more intense, but it doesn't last as long. Snorting it will take a little longer to kick in, but the high lasts longer despite not being as intense.

On a serious note, I've read that with any drug, the potential for addiction increases when the rate of increase of concentration in the blood AT THE BRAIN increases. Inhalation produces the fastest risetime (blood goes from lungs to heart to body and brain), IV injection is next (has to go from injection site to heart and out to lungs first - the "bolus" gets spread out during its travels), followed by absorption through mucus membranes, with absorption through the digestive tract being the slowest.

From this, smoked cocaine (e.g. crack) will be more addictive than that absorbed through the mucus membranes (snorted), but not enough so to warrant the 1000 to 1 treatment (i.e. where sentencing goes by quantity possessed, crack being treated as if someone possessed 1000 times as much powdered stuff).

[Gravekeeper]

Slight correction.

No correction needed. I said "when you whip out a gun in his face" not "when you're holding a gun in a tense situation". If you surprise an officer with a gun at point blank range you're going to get shot.

[Greenday]

No one said it wasn't a justified shooting. Despite the nebulous accusations of "some people" that Greenday and protege refer too.

Are you trying to imply that we are making up the protests that are going on? These people do exist.

[protege]

These people do exist.

We've had several protests here in Pittsburgh since Ferguson--everything from marches downtown...up to people blocking streets and highways. Here, they've stayed pretty peaceful. However, I don't think they're going to stay that way for long. You don't hear much about what goes on here in the national media.