Take that, anti-vaxxers! RIP little Olivia

[Blue Ginger]

it's not minor is the point, I couldn't eat solid foods for three weeks as I had them internally, anything not liquid risked causing infection.

Ouch and I thought I had it bad. I think I have already mentioned how badly my dad and I had chicken pox already on here or CS. I also had them internally, in my ears and behind my eyes. Years later my doc told me there was actually a high chance that I could has lost some vision or hearing if any of those had of scarred badly.

At the time we didn't know that there was a vaccination for chicken pox. Now everyone in my extended family that hasn't had it yet have be vaccinated.

I am very very pro vaccinate.

But then with my extended family history I know what some of these illnesses can do:
- A great aunty lost 3 children in a few weeks to whooping cough in the 50's
- A great uncle and his wife brought TB back from Africa in the 70's
- A family friend recently contracted TB while volunteering at an asylum seeker resource centre
- A family of seven pretty much wiped out by measles in the early 20's. Only 3 kids survived because they were staying with relatives at the time.
- And finally my grandfather had polio when he was a child before they had a working treatment. He was given a massive dose of penicillin as part of a trial and while it did mostly work, he would suffer relapses for the rest of his life. He would be fine one day and then not be able to move for weeks or months at a time the next.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just curious - is it mandatory, or just that ranchers have done a cost/benefit analysis and decided to vaccinate their herds? Also, how long does the disease have to be gone before it's determined that universal vaccination is not cost-effective? I know that the "vaccinate everyone against smallpox" campaign ended after I was vaccinated but before my younger brother reached the right age.

Here's a link about the rinderpest vaccination programme: http://www.oie.int/for-the-media/rinderpest/

The world was declared to be officially free from rinderpest infection at the OIE General Session in May 2011. This historic moment followed decades of internationally concerted effort to eradicate the disease. Rinderpest, once the scourge of societies across Asia, Europe and Africa, is only the second infectious disease, after smallpox, to have been eradicated thanks to the efforts of humankind.

[fireheart17]

As for the bullshit about vaccinations being spread as good to make profit for vaccine companies; well, over this side of the pond, vaccines are free and doctors still recommend them, despite not making a penny out of doing so.

Over here, same deal for kids. If it's on the government's scheduled childhood program and your kid is under 16, it's free. Some vaccines are free for certain groups, the rest you have to pay for. Funnily enough, it's the free ones that everyone bitches about.

At the time we didn't know that there was a vaccination for chicken pox. Now everyone in my extended family that hasn't had it yet have be vaccinated.

I believe the varicella (chickenpox) vaccine wasn't added to the roster until around the 2000's. Prior to that, it either didn't exist or wasn't given. Rotavirus was also thrown in around the mid 2000's. Today, the MMRV is given at 18 months.

I do vaguely remember contracting it as did my sister (who was 2 when she got it, I was 4). I'm actually surprised, given my very high stress levels of late, that I have not picked up shingles. I've been swabbed for whooping cough, but aside from needing an update in my DTap, I got my shots (albeit reluctantly-more the "ow pokey me with a stabby thing"). One of them was at the docs, since I got that at the same time my sister got her 4-year-old shots. (I remember because I was showing off the "cuddle bug" I got given from the doc instead of the stickers all the other kids got when they got their shots )

There was a case over here in Aussieland of a baby named Dana, who contracted whooping cough at 6 weeks (too young for a full course of the vaccine) and died. Her picture (and her family) are used as a case story for how important herd immunity is. According to the mum of Dana, the head of the anti-vaxx mob in Australia (now called the Australian Vaccination Skeptics Network) did not believe her kid had died from whooping cough and not only did she want the ORIGINAL copy of the birth certificate, she actually wanted the dead infant so she could get an autopsy! (I do believe that the baby did have an autopsy due to her age and the fact that it was a vaccine-preventable disease, but still...)

[Tama]

Al's sister, while not that nice, has had whooping cough. The descriptions of her coughing and how ill she got and how she could only eat raw hotdogs without being ill....yeah, if I ever have kids, they'll be getting that vaccination!

[Panacea]

Just as an aside: Here in Ontario, the flu vaccine is free, but there are some vaccines that you have to buy, like the shingles vaccine and Twinrix. Even the flu shot here wasn't always free to everyone, but it was still cheap (around $12).

The US government heavily subsidizes vaccines to keep the manufacturers making them. Big Pharma would get out of the vaccine business if they could because it is not profitable. Vaccines are expensive to make, difficult to make, require high levels of quality control, and are time consuming to make. They can make MUCH more money on a blockbuster drug like Lipitor or Nexium than they can on vaccines.

That's why the government started the vaccine court and the vaccine injury compensation program, to indemnify the vaccine makers from lawsuits. It's why the government subsidizes the production costs. Because vaccines are too important to public health.

[fireheart17]

There have been hundreds of stories out there on the net now of new mothers refusing the Hep B vaccination at birth (semi-understandable if you're of the "Hep B is an STI" group [it's not]) but also refusing the Vitamin K injection given at birth.



And I'm not just talking "Oh I don't want the needle, can we get it done another way" type thing, I'm talking about "no Vitamin K" whatsoever (YMMV, but most hospitals over here allow for it to be given orally if needed, it just takes a little more work because it has to be given over a couple of days, instead of all at once)

Then there's the new mums who refuse the heel prick test....some people just shouldn't breed. (For those who don't know, the heel prick test (aka Guthrie test) involves pricking the babies heel and letting 4 droplets of blood land on a special card. The card is then left to dry and sent off for testing. From what I'm aware, it can pick up a number of genetic disorders that wouldn't have been flagged in utero)

[wolfie]

Next thing you know, some women are going to be refusing shots of anti-RH antibodies.

For those not familiar with the issues, if one parent is RH positive and the other is RH negative, it's either definite (positive parent got it from both of their parents) or a 50/50 chance (positive parent got it from only one of their parents) that the baby will be RH positive. If the father is the RH positive parent, this poses a problem, since an RH positive fetus is a "not me" to the mother's immune system. Since the antibodies, but not the antigens, can cross the placenta, it's not usually a problem for the first child (unless the mother was sensitized through another means). At birth (probably also true for miscarriage, possibly for abortion), traces of the RH positive fetal material get into the mother's system, and her immune system reacts to the "not me" by creating antibodies. In the event of a subsequent pregnancy with an RH positive fetus, the antibodies will attack the fetus.

A fairly successful treatment is to, immediately after birth, give the new mother a shot of anti-RH antibodies. These "clean up" the traces of fetal material that got into her system before her immune system has a chance to react, so she doesn't start producing her own anti-RH antibodies.

[Panacea]

There have been hundreds of stories out there on the net now of new mothers refusing the Hep B vaccination at birth (semi-understandable if you're of the "Hep B is an STI" group [it's not]) but also refusing the Vitamin K injection given at birth.

Yes, I've seen this first hand when I take my students to clinic in the newborn nursery. There's this "natural childbirth movement" that is vehemently opposed to anything that is "not natural" as part of the childbirthing process. Pregnant women often develop a "birth plan" of what they want from their care when they have their babies, and hospitals bend over backwards to honor them because providing a positive birth experience has real health benefits during labor.

We do try to educate parents on Vitamin K, and many parents change their mind and allow the injection.

Vitamin K, for those who don't know, is something we learn to metabolize from foods only after we acquire the normal bacteria that lives in our GI tract. Babies usually pick it up breast feeding, but bottle fed babies will pick it up as well from mamma's hands. It takes about 7-10 days to get enough to generate Vitamin K (which explains the 8 day wait for ritual circumcision among Jews).

Vitamin K is essentially to the healthy functioning of our clotting system. Babies with an inactive clotting system are susceptible to hemorrhagic diseases of the newborn and can die.

A lot of parents refuse Hep B as well, and that we often can't talk them out of.

Then there's the new mums who refuse the heel prick test....some people just shouldn't breed. (For those who don't know, the heel prick test (aka Guthrie test) involves pricking the babies heel and letting 4 droplets of blood land on a special card. The card is then left to dry and sent off for testing. From what I'm aware, it can pick up a number of genetic disorders that wouldn't have been flagged in utero)

Yeah, and that's REALLY scary. One of the genetic diseases we identify with this test is PKU: phenylketonuria. It affects protein metablism. Basically, the infant is unable to metabolize any protein and must be on a severely restrict diet: no meats, no dairy, minimal grains, and even some fruits and veggies are verboten. Failure to adhere to this diet leads to seizures, mental retardation, and death.

Next thing you know, some women are going to be refusing shots of anti-RH antibodies.

For those not familiar with the issues, if one parent is RH positive and the other is RH negative, <snip>

The shot you're referring to is called RhoGAM. It is synthesized from human blood. It's not a vaccine perse, but it does fool the mother's immune system into thinking it doesn't need to produce antibodies. It also can clear out antibodies that already exist.

Let me just clarify: this only happens when an Rh negative mom conceives an Rh positive baby. If the Dad is Rh negative, and mom Rh positive there is zero risk to mom or baby.

The Rh factor, or Rhesus factor, is a protein on the RBC. In Rh positive people it is present, in Rh negative it is not.

Theoretically there should be no direct blood to blood mixing between mom and baby. The placenta does not directly mix the blood of mom and baby. However, it is common to have microscopic tears that allow blood to go back and forth. It's not a substantial amount of blood and not a risk in of itself. However, if baby's Rh positive blood gets into mom's blood stream, her immune system will form antibodies. Those antibodies then get into baby's blood and attack the baby's blood.

The blood cells of the baby are destroyed, leading to a build up of bilirubin in the blood the baby can't handle. Jaundice is the result, but too much can lead to something called kernicterus; an accumulation of bilirubin in the brain that leads to seizures, mental retardation and death (see a theme here?).

For mom's to refuse RhoGAM would be an utter disaster to pregnancies.

A fairly successful treatment is to, immediately after birth, give the new mother a shot of anti-RH antibodies. These "clean up" the traces of fetal material that got into her system before her immune system has a chance to react, so she doesn't start producing her own anti-RH antibodies.

The usual treatment is to test the blood of mom and dad either before the pregnancy begins (best option) or within the first six weeks. If mom is Rh- and Dad is Rh+, then the mom gets a shot of RhoGAM at 27 weeks. Before that there is minimal risk to baby. Then after the delivery, mom gets another injection.

This is repeated for each subsequent pregnancy. In moms who don't get good prenatal care, the first pregnancy is usually uneventful and the baby is born healthy. But the risks increase with each and every pregnancy thereafter, so mom gets more RhoGAM with each pregnancy.

So again, for moms to start refusing RhoGAM would be an utter disaster. But we live in a society that is so suspicious of doctors and Big Pharma, that people are making crazy and stupid decisions.

[Cia]

A fairly successful treatment is to, immediately after birth, give the new mother a shot of anti-RH antibodies. These "clean up" the traces of fetal material that got into her system before her immune system has a chance to react, so she doesn't start producing her own anti-RH antibodies.

The baby is blood typed first then the mother is given the Rh Factor shot if the baby is Rh pos when the Mom is Rh neg.

Been there, done that had a colicy baby for three months.

As to the anti-vaxxers no exemptions except for medical reasons. Period. If vaccinations are somehow "against" your religion tough noogies your kid(s) will not be allowed to go to public schools, state colleges nor subsidized daycare. Private schools can decide for themselves. When your child catches a preventable disease that's your problem and if the child then infects other children who are to young to be immunized then you are liable for damages.

[Kheldarson]

The baby is blood typed first then the mother is given the Rh Factor shot if the baby is Rh pos when the Mom is Rh neg.

Depends on the circumstances. When I had my abruption, we weren't going to get a blood type from the little one. But hubs is Rh positive, I'm negative, so I got the shot for just in case. Turns out that was a good call: he took after his dad.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Anti vaxxers are also nothing new; they were around when the smallpox vaccine was invented... and people then thought them as batshit insane as we think of them now. These people hated Jenner's invention and thought that taking it would turn them into cows.

https://puffthemutantdragon.files.wo...12/cartoon.jpg

I also can't understand how these people who supposedly love their children, are prepared for their children to sicken and possibly die or be left severely disabled all cuz of their beliefs.

[Tama]

Admittedly one had to get cowpox, but I think that's a hell of a lot better than smallpox.

Turn into a cow? Boy are people dumb...

[fireheart17]

Yes, I've seen this first hand when I take my students to clinic in the newborn nursery. There's this "natural childbirth movement" that is vehemently opposed to anything that is "not natural" as part of the childbirthing process. Pregnant women often develop a "birth plan" of what they want from their care when they have their babies, and hospitals bend over backwards to honor them because providing a positive birth experience has real health benefits during labor.

I think most of my friends birth plans went something along the lines of "GET THIS DAMN BABY OUT OF ME ALREADY!" A few wanted to breastfeed and were disheartened when they couldn't for one reason or another.

A lot of parents refuse Hep B as well, and that we often can't talk them out of.

This I can partially understand in the sense of that in schools over here, most peoples exposure to Hep B is through either drug/alcohol education or sex education. Not a lot of people are aware it can be transferred by other means.

Yeah, and that's REALLY scary. One of the genetic diseases we identify with this test is PKU: phenylketonuria. It affects protein metablism. Basically, the infant is unable to metabolize any protein and must be on a severely restrict diet: no meats, no dairy, minimal grains, and even some fruits and veggies are verboten. Failure to adhere to this diet leads to seizures, mental retardation, and death.

According to this sheet from the hospital where I was born, the Guthrie test can pick up 30+ different diseases and not just PKU. Another one they pick up on is Cystic Fibrosis and some abnormal thyroid conditions.

My mum still has our Blue Books somewhere too...I really should look at them (basically it's the parents "health care record" book that's given to parents when they have a kid and that's the record until the age of 5. Part of this is slowly being phased out in favour of a national databank for immunisation records)

[cindybubbles]

Anti-vaxxers who perpetuate their hatred of vaccines belong in prison, period. Send them to prison and have their children taken away to be vaccinated.

As for people who would refuse to have their children vaccinated on non-medical or non-religious grounds? Charge them a $500 fine for refusing the first time, a $5000 fine for the second time and send them to prison for subsequent times. Any doctor who honours their refusal to vaccinate should also be charged.

[cindybubbles]

This is what I posted on my Facebook wall:

To all those who refuse to vaccinate their children: Were you vaccinated yourself as a child? If so, did you become autistic or insane? No? Then for the love of your children and everyone around them, please VACCINATE YOUR KIDS! There ought to be a law requiring all children to get their shots, needles or not!

This is in response to parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids due to a fear of them developing autism afterwards, which is BS to me. Autism or not, everyone should get their shots anyway. I have autistic tendencies and I got vaccinated.