$15 minimum wage...I know I'm poking the bear, but...

[mjr]

I'm sure this argument has come up with each raise of MW.

But...

$15/hour is $31,200 per year, assuming a full-time position and no vacation. Before taxes.

That's decent, right? So then two people working MW jobs would make $62,400/yr, full time, no vacation, before taxes.

Seems reasonable so far, right?

So, what happens to the "underachievers" or the ones that can't perform? I mean, I would assume that if MW is $15/hour that a lot of employers would look for "higher quality" employees. I mean, I'd hate to see a job for a cashier at McDonalds say "Bachelors Degree".

Also, to poke the bear further, there was a movement that was an epic fail. I think it was in Europe somewhere. There was a group that wanted to cap the CEO pay at a certain amount above the lowest paid employee (I think it was 15x).

I guess the incentive there is to pay people more. Companies can get around that, though, because I think the laws for contract employees and interns are different.

Anyway, assuming $15/hour for the lowest paid employee, that means the CEO could still get $225/hour, or $468,000/year. Assuming, again, the full 2080 hours per year and no vacation.

So let's try to have a discussion....

[s_stabeler]

while your auestion is valid, the simple fact of the matter is that a)$15 an hour is where minimum wage WOULD be if it had been linked to inflation all these years. b) in the past, rises in the minimum wage haven't actually caused wide-scale job losses. c) in many cases, you'll find "entry-level" jobs are already requiring a bachelor's degree. ( it's increasingly used as an excuse to pay a ridiculously low salary for the position rather than the position being more or less an introductory position)

as for the CEO wage cap, that was more along the lines of trying to prevent CEOs paying themselves ridiculously high salaries. Yes, a CEO has a lot of responsibility- although the fact they usually get fat severance payouts when they screw up makes me think they are crying wolf- but does it really justify them earning significantly more then the Prime Minister in the UK, or the President of the United States? who are responsible for entire countries, and are personally hounded if there is a screwup, even if it has nothing to do with them? IIRC, the UK Prime Minster gets something around £130,000 (~$190,000) per year, while the US president earns in the region of $100k per year. So yes, I DO believe the base salary of a CEO can be capped at 15x the salary of the lowest-paid workers while still being fair.

[BlaqueKatt]

I mean, I would assume that if MW is $15/hour that a lot of employers would look for "higher quality" employees. I mean, I'd hate to see a job for a cashier at McDonalds say "Bachelors Degree".

I've seen secretary/receptionist/hotel night auditor requiring minimum associate's degree*, and store keyholder*(not even management)requiring bachelor's, both with a starting salary of around $27k. Of course I lived in a city where over 60% of the residents had degrees, and cost of living reflected that. A single person in that city can't afford anything other than a 300sq ft studio-and that runs $600-$700 a month. 0_0 It's not even a large city, if you have a vehicle you can move 30 miles away and rent an ENTIRE HOUSE(with finished basement) for $800 a month.

*and they don't care what it's in so that should say something.

[HYHYBT]

The $15/hr figure is a couple years old now anyway, and neither jumping all the way there nor leaving it unindexed are good ideas. What I'd do is this: pick whichever year in the past where the standard minimum wage was at a good level and use that for a moving target figure, adjusted yearly. Set both the regular and tipped minimum wages to rise automatically every year, first by a dollar per year, then to the target once they've caught up. This would also gradually fix the absurd practice of having a separate, nearly nothing minimum for tipped employees.

I don't know what, if anything, could reasonably be done about the degree requirement. It's basically a cheat, a way for people doing the hiring to cut down on the number of applications they have to look at without getting into substance, and so long as there are enough people with degrees to fill the positions they have open, there's no reason for them not to use that filter.

[Aragarthiel]

The bachelor's degree for minimum wage jobs issue is what's keeping me from getting a job. Minimum wage for me would in no way improve my living conditions, since I'd be paying for gas money to work and daycare. I'm better off at home until I can finish my degree and try for something worth a little more.

I remember before the economy collapsed when $20,000 a year was pitied. My husband makes $19,000 a year and somehow we make it work (low rent helps), but we know we need something better. We just can't afford the costs of another job, so college it is for me, even if I can't find classes in a field I'll enjoy.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm of the opinion that paying any professional worker a wage that would equate to less than living wages for an assumed 40-hour work week should be criminal.

I could see some exceptions for a very few things, but doing anything else is just externalizing the cost of a person's wage onto the public at large as opposed to the company payroll.

Everybody in the country is paying to supplement the wages of those who make too little to survive as part of our income tax liability. And it costs more for us to do so with taxes than it would if we had to pay a little more for our goods to support a livable minimum wage.

Also, I think tipping as an excuse to underpay employees is bullshit and we should do away with the antiquated and archaic practice. Thankfully, California makes it so that a company must prove that an employee makes enough in tips to justify a reduced wage, and that's such an irritating hurdle that they just pay minimum and be done with it.

[s_stabeler]

I agree- it's not actually feasible to put minimum wage up straight to $15 per hour. Thouhg maybe make it $2 per year the thing goes up.

as for California's system, it's technically the same everywhere- if you credit tips to the minimum wage, you have to prove they actually do make minimum at least- but nobody bothers enforcing it.

But yeah, I agree- minimum wage should be set for an area based on it providing enough for a living. Granted, it can be a somewhat spartan living, with you needing to be frugal, but it should be possible to live on.

[KellyHabersham]

I don't know what, if anything, could reasonably be done about the degree requirement. It's basically a cheat, a way for people doing the hiring to cut down on the number of applications they have to look at without getting into substance, and so long as there are enough people with degrees to fill the positions they have open, there's no reason for them not to use that filter.

It's getting bit like that in the library system I work in, only not so much the degree requirement as it is about being bilingual. (Let's just say that I think that is one of the things that's holding me back from getting promoted)

[s_stabeler]

It depends on the position and the library system, actually. If the position in question would need you to talk to people in foreign countries(or from foreign countries), being able to talk in their language might be a distinct advantage.

[Andara Bledin]

The problem leading to the increase in requirements for low-end jobs is the fact that we have more people than we have work, and that's just going to continue to get worse as technology improves.

The only real fix for that is to put in a minimum income or change the expectation from a 40-hour work week to something lower and more sustainable for the population.

We can't continue to live like we're in the industrial age much longer if we don't want the whole thing to collapse under its own weight.

[AccountingDrone]

as for California's system, it's technically the same everywhere- if you credit tips to the minimum wage, you have to prove they actually do make minimum at least- but nobody bothers enforcing it.
.

*snicker* I put a really miserly tip on the charge slip and I make it up in cash on the side. <shrug> I personally would be fine with not tipping like in Europe so when I do get seriously exceptional service a tip actually *means* something.

[Aragarthiel]

But yeah, I agree- minimum wage should be set for an area based on it providing enough for a living.

That would be a problem where I live. In a 10-mile radius you can pay $400 a month for rent, or $1200 for the same size place. In the city you have water bills, but the more rural areas require a well and usually have gas heating. Not to mention, you have to pay more in gas to get groceries at the same price as people in the city, and it takes more gas to get to work too.

There's really no sure-fire way around it, just hoping the average for the area is enough to make sure the people who pay the most for the basics are still going to have what they need.

[Tama]

I'm of the opinion we should do a basic income thing. The idea is adults get $12,000 a year, $1000 per month in other words, and that is it. If you want to make more, you can, but basic needs are taken care of.

[KellyHabersham]

It depends on the position and the library system, actually. If the position in question would need you to talk to people in foreign countries(or from foreign countries), being able to talk in their language might be a distinct advantage.

It's hard to explain my feelings on this without getting the thread off-topic, so I'll just say my issue with the bilingual "almost-requirement" is that only one specific non-English language is mentioned.

[mjr]

It's hard to explain my feelings on this without getting the thread off-topic, so I'll just say my issue with the bilingual "almost-requirement" is that only one specific non-English language is mentioned.

Yep. "Para español, oprima dos."

I've asked others "Why", and the answer I get is "You know why".

Sorry, I'm not trying to derail.