Rioters Ruin Another Protest

[Aragarthiel]

I feel genuinely bad for all of the good cops out there during these events. While they might deter the corrupt ones from doing something again (for fear of arrest, riots, or death), the good ones are probably afraid of making the tiniest mistake, or even just going to work because they might be killed. I don't know how many of you heard of this http://www.11alive.com/story/news/cr...lice/26552507/
But there are so many people out there who have the same thoughts, they just don't talk publicly about it. My grandpa is white and works as a cop on the weekends, and he's one of the best people I've ever known. It worries me to think that he might end up stopping the wrong person for speeding.

[Andara Bledin]

It worries me to think that he might end up stopping the wrong person for speeding.

Everybody has always been in danger from the tiny minority of batshit insane people who run around in our midst. Police just typically come in contact with a wider sphere of people, but their jobs are massively less dangerous than, say, cab drivers.

Also, there would be less animosity against officers if so many of them hadn't been so utterly contemptible for what has amounted to generational abuse.

I feel sorry for good cops who made some effort to make things better or who work in pristine environments. I feel a shit-ton less sorry for those 'good' cops who have worked beside shitty assholes for years and just looked the other way while people are being murdered by those charged with upholding the law.

[Gravekeeper]

I feel genuinely bad for all of the good cops out there during these events. While they might deter the corrupt ones from doing something again (for fear of arrest, riots, or death), the good ones are probably afraid of making the tiniest mistake, or even just going to work because they might be killed. .

Sorry, you're going to need more than Facebook threats for me to muster sympathy at this point. Especially with the Baltimore PD. This is also literally nothing new so lets not pretend the "good ones" are suddenly living in fear. This is the end result of decades of systematic abuse. It is not a surprise.

To be utterly blunt, the US policing system is not built to scout, hire, encourage or support good cops. I do feel sympathy for good cops, but not in the way you indicate. I feel sympathy for them for trying to operate in this system. Where 9 times out of 10 they likely end up being shunned/shat on/forcibly committed in their own department because of the existing police culture.

[Gravekeeper]

Oh, and here's the other prisoner in the van now:

“I am Donta Allen. I am the one who was in the van with Freddie Gray,” he said. “All I did was go straight to the station, but I heard a little banging like he was banging his head.”

“They trying to make it seem like I told them that, I made it like Freddie Gray did that to himself,” Allen said. “Why the fuck would he do that to himself?”

-.-

[Greenday]

yeah about that......I'll just leave this here
The hideous white hypocrisy behind the Baltimore “Hero Mom” hype: How clueless media applause excuses police brutality

Wow, that's super racist against white people.

As for your last post Gravekeeper, why indeed would a prisoner make it look like the cops beat on him? It certainly would be the first time a prisoner self-harmed to make it look like the cops beat him up so he could get released so he doesn't cause a fuss, right?

Clearly the prosecutor believes the cops abused their authority. Surely she wouldn't bring them up on charges to help end the protests going on in cities all across the country, would she? We wouldn't want someone to bow to peer pressure after all.

[Gravekeeper]

Wow, that's super racist against white people.

The writer of the article is white fyi. So I wouldn't call it super racist, but it's certainly....something. Its like she's making up outrage just so she can condemn it from a position of supposed moral superiority. Hero Mom(tm) is hardly being lionized from coast to coast across the entire political spectrum. Plus, I mean, comparing two smacks upside the head to a grown teenager with Adrian Peterson switching the living shit out of a 4 year old is pretty fucked up.

Its sort of...I'm not sure how to put it. Condescending almost? Like don't worry black people, I'm a white person who REALLY gets you and am mad for you!

[Greenday]

The writer of the article is white fyi. So I wouldn't call it super racist, but it's certainly....something. Its like she's making up outrage just so she can condemn it from a position of supposed moral superiority. Hero Mom(tm) is hardly being lionized from coast to coast across the entire political spectrum. Plus, I mean, comparing two smacks upside the head to a grown teenager with Adrian Peterson switching the living shit out of a 4 year old is pretty fucked up.

Its sort of...I'm not sure how to put it. Condescending almost? Like don't worry black people, I'm a white person who REALLY gets you and am mad for you!

It's quite possible to be racist against your own race.

[Gravekeeper]

Clearly the prosecutor believes the cops abused their authority. Surely she wouldn't bring them up on charges to help end the protests going on in cities all across the country, would she? We wouldn't want someone to bow to peer pressure after all.

Wow, seriously? What the hell does it take for you to admit that maybe the police fucked up and that protesters have a point for once? And where was this "bowing to peer pressure" with shit like Ferguson?

This isn't some nebulous situation where we only have the word of one cop and no witnesses. The van has a gps. They know exactly where it was, what it was doing and how it was driving. They know the officers intentionally did NOT secure Gray as they are required by policy to do specifically to prevent injury. We also know that by the time this prisoner was placed in the van, Gray was already unconsciousness so any banging around would just be his body flopping around.

This is also the fourth time the Baltimore PD has snapped someone's neck by giving them a "rough ride" and the second time that injury ended up killing the suspect. They have a variety of colourful terms for it. As well as ones specifically for slamming on the breaks suddenly to cause a prisoner to fly forward and slam into the front wall. ( "Screen test", "Bringing them up front", etc ).

The city has paid out 46.4 million dollars so far to people the Baltimore police have paralyzed with "rough rides" in the back of their vans. Never mind the litany of other lawsuits they've paid out.

[Gravekeeper]

It's quite possible to be racist against your own race.

If that article is your bar for "super racist" you set the bar pretty damn low and apply it pretty damn selectively.

[Greenday]

Wow, seriously? What the hell does it take for you to admit that maybe the police fucked up and that protesters have a point for once? And where was this "bowing to peer pressure" with shit like Ferguson?

I already admitted in the first post of this thread that the police fucked up. But hey, ignore everything I post that doesn't flow with your opinions of me.

I want proof in order to charge people with murder. As of right now, I don't see any proof that the cops set out to kill him. It seems far-fetched as they had no motive to do so.

Interestingly enough, the Fraternal Order of Police just asked the prosecutor to remove herself from the case due to her having close ties with the Gray's lawyer. I'm not sure how impartial someone can be when the side they are helping has donated thousands of dollars to her campaigns and has been on her payroll before. And as they pointed out, it sure would make her husband look good to the locals since he's a councilman there.

But yea, I suppose you are right. It's not like she could very easily have other motives behind trumping up charges against the officers.

[NecCat]

I want proof in order to charge people with murder. As of right now, I don't see any proof that the cops set out to kill him. It seems far-fetched as they had no motive to do so.

I want proof for people to be convicted of murder. As of right now I don't see any proof that the cops didn't expect their actions to kill him. It seems possible that they had motive/means/willingness to do so. That should be enough to be investigated and charged. For anyone, police or otherwise.

[Peppergirl]

Hey All!

Just a friendly reminder, lets keep it to the facts and not let things devolve into personal attacks, m'kay?

This is an emotional situation and it would be very easy to go there, particularly with such opposing opinions present. But that's what makes Fratch great, right?

Carry on!

[Andara Bledin]

As of right now, I don't see any proof that the cops set out to kill him. It seems far-fetched as they had no motive to do so.

Well, let's see, people given this treatment have died in the past, the higher ups circulated a memo to not do this because it's fucking stupid (and makes them look bad), and the only possible reason to do that shit is to abuse your authority with a blatant lack of regard for the wellbeing of those considered 'beneath you.'

They thought it was funny, but it was the act of a pack of bullies who really don't give a shit about whether or not they maim or murder the person in their care because, fuck, it's just some poor black dude, amirite?

[Greenday]

I want proof for people to be convicted of murder. As of right now I don't see any proof that the cops didn't expect their actions to kill him. It seems possible that they had motive/means/willingness to do so. That should be enough to be investigated and charged. For anyone, police or otherwise.

It's more than enough to sue them in civil court and put them in debt for the rest of their lives. Gross negligence should be easy enough for a rookie to prove.

As for the criminal charges, sure they had the means and opportunity, but motive? Did Gray have a history with these cops? There's no evidence that I am aware of that the cops drove recklessly to cause such an incident and there's no witnesses to prove it. Some people who witnessed the arrest said the cops were unnecessarily rough but the videos taken don't show that at all.

Wrongful arrest? Sure, the knife he had was perfectly legal.
Manslaughter? They'd have to prove the cops intended to harm Gray. If they can, then it's manslaughter.
2nd Degree Murder? Just stacking the charges at that point. Manslaughter should be pretty hard to prove in the first place. Intending to kill someone? Good luck with that. Waste of time IMO but it'll make the public feel better.
Misconduct? Obviously.

[NecCat]

Manslaughter? They'd have to prove the cops intended to harm Gray. If they can, then it's manslaughter.
2nd Degree Murder? Just stacking the charges at that point. Manslaughter should be pretty hard to prove in the first place. Intending to kill someone? Good luck with that. Waste of time IMO but it'll make the public feel better.
Misconduct? Obviously.

(Emphasis mine)

I'm not even related to a lawyer, but I thought manslaughter was when someone died because of your actions, which a reasonable person would know could cause injury or death, even though that wasn`t your intent (having a 3rd floor railing missing or leaving a small child alone in the bathtub)
I thought 2nd degree murder was when your actions killed someone when you intended to hurt but were not planning on killing them (punching someone in a fight, and having them die of brain damage, or pushing someone and having them end up falling down the stairs)
And I thought 1st degree was when the intent was to kill them.

If your definitions are correct, then yes, even manslaughter would be a challenge to prove, there is not (currently) proof that the cops set out intending to kill someone.