Rioters Ruin Another Protest

[Hyena Dandy]

Well, if they didn't drive erratically and there's no reports that they did, then there is no reason to suspect you'd cause harm to someone by not buckling them in.

What? You think its unreasonable that someone whose official job instruction, because of trouble their organization has got in regarding people's injuries while not buckled in, a person whose job description involves telling people to buckle their seatbelt, would not know that not being restrained can hurt people?

[Andara Bledin]

Could have just went overboard. Makes just as much sense as cops wanting to hurt other people who can't defend themselves.

This statement right here is a display of complete and utter ignorance of human nature.

I mean, really; it's like you're denying the existence of bullies.

I'd heard that Gray had some surgery on his spine before the incident. If that's the case, why didn't he follow his doctor's orders and stay home? Still doesn't justify his death. But, had he been properly belted inside the vehicle, he wouldn't have been killed.

This is not the case. He and his sister were involved in a lawsuit for an injury; from 15 years ago... from lead paint.

This was a story released by conservative media shitbags in an attempt to discredit the murder victim.

Everybody who spread that story as any kind of authority who knew better or failed to perform due diligence is a terrible human being and should feel bad for helping run a smear campaign against a dead man.

[Gravekeeper]

Well, if they didn't drive erratically and there's no reports that they did, then there is no reason to suspect you'd cause harm to someone by not buckling them in. People remain unbuckled in backseats all the time without dying so it's not unreasonable to believe he'd be fine too.

Sigh. You're just being absurd now. He was handcuffed and shackled in leg irons. It is BPD department policy to buckle prisoners in because of the risk of injury and the proven history of injury to suspects. As they have previously injured numberous people and have previous to this paralyzed two other people ( costing the city just over 50 million in lawsuit settlements in the process ) by giving them "nickel rides" in the back of the van. Which is one of the many slang terms the BPD has for putting a suspect in the back of a police van, unsecured, and then bouncing his ass around.

Never mind that he was placed face down on the floor of the van not in the "Backseat" and the "backseats" of a police van are just benches that run along the wall ( as opposed to facing forward ).

If you've ever ridden on a public transport bus in your entire life you'll know how much g-force is involved with sitting unsecured on a bench in a vehicle that is driving fully within the confines of traffic law. That's why they have poles and hand loops to begin with.

Now hog tie yourself and lay on the floor while the bus makes sudden unpredictable stops and see how well you do.

I'd heard that Gray had some surgery on his spine before the incident. If that's the case, why didn't he follow his doctor's orders and stay home? Still doesn't justify his death. But, had he been properly belted inside the vehicle, he wouldn't have been killed.

No, he didn't. That was a bullshit story from the right wing fuck-o-sphere. One of a few that emerged. Just like happens with every unarmed black man dies around cops story. =/

I mean there are people on Twitter pretending to be black looters/rioters in Baltimore just to push the image.

[Andara Bledin]

And here's something else for anyone still on the 'benefit of the doubt' bandwagon:

Prosecutor's timeline in the Freddie Gray case

This includes a map of the route the officers took, which should make it absolutely and abundantly clear that the fucking assholes were joyriding in the van to abuse their detainee, since stops 4 and 5 have no reason for existing except for the bullies running the show to let their passenger know what happens when you don't respect their authority.

I mean, even their own timeline had them over on Druid and Hill. What the ever-loving fuck were they don't on Druid and Hill when the arrest, the pickup of the second suspect, and the freaking station are all located on or adjacent to Mosher!?!

Do the math. The arrest happened at 8:40, and before 6 minutes have passed, the van arrives, they load Grey into in, and they subsequently stop the van because he's "acting up" in the back. They should have been back at the station within 10 minutes, tops.

Paramedics aren't even requested until 9:26. What the ever-loving fuck were those assholes up to for half an hour before they managed to realize that Grey needed some attention? Were they taking the time to clean the guy's blood off the inside of the van? I mean, you don't hit your head hard enough to die from the resulting trauma without bleeding. A lot.

Anyone defending these shitstains is nobody I want to share a planet with.

Oh, yeah, and lest I forget:

Freddie Grey was guilty of the reprehensible act of making eye contact with bicycle officers. He had not committed any crimes, was not suspected in any crimes, was not charged with any crimes, and the only contact between him and the police that day was that when the patrolmen reached the place where he was, he dared to make eye contact with them as if he were a worthwhile human being.

[Greenday]

Never mind that he was placed face down on the floor of the van not in the "Backseat" and the "backseats" of a police van are just benches that run along the wall ( as opposed to facing forward ).

It's funny, people keep saying this, but the youtube videos clearly show him walking into the vehicle instead of being "placed face down on the floor".

[Kheldarson]

It's funny, people keep saying this, but the youtube videos clearly show him walking into the vehicle instead of being "placed face down on the floor".

And? I can walk into my mom's van and then lay down on the floor. Why is it hard to imagine he was walked to the van and then forced down when inside?

[Greenday]

And? I can walk into my mom's van and then lay down on the floor. Why is it hard to imagine he was walked to the van and then forced down when inside?

Can you prove it?

[Kheldarson]

We have medical proof of error, GPS proof of going out of their way in an unnecessary manner, gross negligence in terms of precinct and humanitarian procedure (ignoring requests for medical attention), and a history of precinct behavior. That's enough to say that, given the nature of the injuries, he was most likely detained as has been stated.

Where's your proof and logic that he was buckled in as he should have been?

[Andara Bledin]

It's funny, people keep saying this, but the youtube videos clearly show him walking into the vehicle instead of being "placed face down on the floor".

Which time?

He was placed in the van twice. Which time are these videos capturing?

Nevermind that "being placed in the van" does not mean that they hand carried and arranged him on the floor; verbal commands towards an individual who was already in medical distress would also be 'placing him' in the van.

I find this constant apologism to be distasteful... and that's being nearly as generous as you seem determined to be. >_>

[Shangri-laschild]

The whole reason we have seatbelt laws is that it's perfectly reasonable to expect that people could get injured when not wearing one, on account of it happens. It's been shown to be unsafe enough that there is a law about it. And that's just when people are driving regularly, not when handcuffed or shackled. Even handcuffed he should have been seat-belted. So no, they can't argue that they figured he would be fine. There's a law in place arguing that logic.

And even outside of that, if someone says they need medical attention while in custody, you don't ignore that. Even if you're fairly sure they don't, you don't ignore that. At the very least as a cover your own ass thing but also because you never know. You immediately stop and check. You don't keep driving, you don't go on other calls or pick other people up.

[Gravekeeper]

It's funny, people keep saying this, but the youtube videos clearly show him walking into the vehicle instead of being "placed face down on the floor".

If you bothered to read the thread or anything about this story before commenting on it you would know that they did this at the first stop. Not during the arrest that was caught on video.

I don't know what you're trying to do at this point. You continue to bring up things like this ( and you're doing it in a snide manner now ), but completely ignore the answers and seemingly refuse to actually read up on the story yourself. I already gave you the timeline from the official reports a couple pages back. Which clearly state when this happened.

I'm with Andara here. Your apologism and refusal to listen but insistence on continuing to defend this have become distasteful, to put it politely. You are both morally and factually incorrect in this discussion. You're not even doing us the courtesy of reading the discussion you insist on being a part of. Leading you to state blatant falsehoods like this one.

[Greenday]

Well, I just find it more likely that a felon with an arrest record of:

03-20-15 dealing cocaine
08-28-08 possession of narcotics
10-05-12 illegal gambling
01-25-14 possession of narcotics over 10 grams
08-24-07 manufacturing and distribution narcotics
08/29-07 distribution of narcotics
09-16-08 distribution of narcotics
04-16-08 distribution of narcotics
05-09-12 distribution of narcotics
01-04-15 distribution of narcotics
12-31-14 distribution of narcotics
05-13-14 stolen property
07-16-08 distribution of narcotics
03-28-08 possession of narcotics
02-12-08 distribution of narcotics
09-29-13 distribution of narcotics
12-04-14 distribution of narcotics
12-04-14 possession of narcotics
03-20-08 burglary
03-20-08 possession of narcotics
09-21-07 distribution of narcotics
04-30-08 unlawful possession (two counts)

was more likely to self harm to get out of going back to prison than a conspiracy by six police officers with not one single complaint on their records to kill a prisoner.

I don't support police brutality in any way, shape or form. But it seems a lot more likely to me that a felon self-harmed to get out of going back to prison and politicians pressured a prosecutor who all their jobs rely on being elected and being popular hanging these cops out to dry so their city doesn't get burnt to the ground and they don't lose their cushy jobs.

[the_std]

Well, I just find it more likely that a felon with an arrest record of [snipped] was more likely to self harm to get out of going back to prison than a conspiracy by six police officers with not one single complaint on their records to kill a prisoner.

Are you missing the part where the police have been caught doing this multiple times in the past? Where two other people have died as a result of this kind of thing? How the medical experts have said that his injuries were not consistent with anything self-inflicted?

How can you ignore these facts and continue to support a factually corrupt police department that has been caught doing this exact same thing in the past?

[Andara Bledin]

Arrest records don't mean much without context.

They either are coupled with conviction records, or they are a sign of harassment by police.

If you can't provide the convictions, then you're pretty much proving the harassment.

[Aragarthiel]

If you can't provide the convictions, then you're pretty much proving the harassment.

The records stop in '08 then pick up again four years later. Odds are, he was in jail at the time.