Rioters Ruin Another Protest

[Gravekeeper]

The incident you reference has NOTHING to do with how he handles prisoners or performs his job.

....And yet the type of person Gray supposedly is has everything to do with whether or not he fit a fantasy self harm narrative the police put forward to cover their asses after the fact?

This question of Gray's supposed character and history was enough to make you argue in the face of literally all reason. But this police officer, the officer who falsely arrested Gray, having a legitimate documented history of mental problems, violence ( including a fucking armed stand off ) and disciplinary action leading to two suspensions from the police force has NOTHING to do with how he performs his job?

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Hyena Dandy]

And unless Gray was boning his ex-girlfriend, it's not relevant to this case (And would probably be thrown out in court for not being relevant). The incident you reference has NOTHING to do with how he handles prisoners or performs his job.

So, the fact that a person has been in prison means they probably figured out how to propel themselves at a wall hard enough to leave an imprint and sever the spine, but the fact that a person has a history of violence has nothing to do with whether or not they hurt someone?

[Greenday]

....And yet the type of person Gray supposedly is has everything to do with whether or not he fit a fantasy self harm narrative the police put forward to cover their asses after the fact?

This question of Gray's supposed character and history was enough to make you argue in the face of literally all reason. But this police officer, the officer who falsely arrested Gray, having a legitimate documented history of mental problems, violence ( including a fucking armed stand off ) and disciplinary action leading to two suspensions from the police force has NOTHING to do with how he performs his job?

Are you fucking kidding me?

One suspension literally had NOTHING to do with his job or him acting inappropriately on the job towards people he has arrested. The other had nothing to do with his interactions with people he arrested. So grasp at straws but those have NOTHING to do with what I said. He has never had an issue nor has anyone filed a report of misbehavior on the job. No complaints about him on the job.

[Greenday]

So, the fact that a person has been in prison means they probably figured out how to propel themselves at a wall hard enough to leave an imprint and sever the spine, but the fact that a person has a history of violence has nothing to do with whether or not they hurt someone?

I got into a fight once in high school. Does that mean my "history of violence" means I'll randomly hurt people? No. My incidence has no effect on how I treat other people. Neither does the officer's personal incidence that had nothing to do with performing his job.

Does anyone have the details of the incident or is "He went crazy once so he's a mass murderer" the only argument I'm going to get? Does anyone know the circumstances of his incident?

[protege]

Neither does the officer's personal incidence that had nothing to do with performing his job.

Unfortunately, he was suspended from the department twice. This will come out during any proceedings, and yes, it has *everything* to do with performing his job. How do we know that the third time wouldn't "be the charm?" How do we know that the slightest hesitation during a traffic stop...wouldn't cause him to beat the shit out of the driver? I mean, he's already had *two* incidents.

[Greenday]

Unfortunately, he was suspended from the department twice. This will come out during any proceedings, and yes, it has *everything* to do with performing his job. How do we know that the third time wouldn't "be the charm?" How do we know that the slightest hesitation during a traffic stop...wouldn't cause him to beat the shit out of the driver? I mean, he's already had *two* incidents.

Neither suspension had anything to do with actual job performance. It was all stuff that had nothing to do with him doing his job or prisoners or anything to do with actually doing something wrong as a cop. It was a personal incident that was caused by specific reasons.

[Hyena Dandy]

I got into a fight once in high school. Does that mean my "history of violence" means I'll randomly hurt people?

One, no, but it means that you're a lot more likely to hurt someone, than they are to come up with ENTIRELY NEW AND UNHEARD OF METHODS OF SUICIDE. Do you really think you can sever your spine and indent your skull by MISTAKE? Do you think that's an ACCIDENT?! You're coming up with ways of questioning the narrative, that even the people INVOLVED in it didn't claim.

And two, there's a big difference between "I was once in a fight when I wasn't a fully mature adult" and "I stalked and harassed someone for marrying my wife." Your fight in highschool happened before you were an adult, most likely before you were even LEGALLY an adult, and, as far as I can tell, was probably not a situation where you were spending a lot of time threatening and intimidating someone, following them and pulling a gun on them. Everyone gets in a few fights, that's not what this is.

[Greenday]

One, no, but it means that you're a lot more likely to hurt someone, than they are to come up with ENTIRELY NEW AND UNHEARD OF METHODS OF SUICIDE. Do you really think you can sever your spine and indent your skull by MISTAKE? Do you think that's an ACCIDENT?! You're coming up with ways of questioning the narrative, that even the people INVOLVED in it didn't claim.

And two, there's a big difference between "I was once in a fight when I wasn't a fully mature adult" and "I stalked and harassed someone for marrying my wife." Your fight in highschool happened before you were an adult, most likely before you were even LEGALLY an adult, and, as far as I can tell, was probably not a situation where you were spending a lot of time threatening and intimidating someone, following them and pulling a gun on them. Everyone gets in a few fights, that's not what this is.

Sure it can happen by accident. It's super unlikely but theoretically, it could happen. I think, which is what I've been trying to prove from the beginning, is that proving murder is going to be a ridiculous task. I fully expect the cops to get manslaughter but there's a pretty big jump from manslaughter to murder.

[Tama]

One thing I want to know is where exactly his spine was severed. I can't imagine it's easy to sever your own spine and you would think if he was doing it on purpose he'd pick a body part that won't paralyze or kill you if you break it.

[Gravekeeper]

One thing I want to know is where exactly his spine was severed. I can't imagine it's easy to sever your own spine and you would think if he was doing it on purpose he'd pick a body part that won't paralyze or kill you if you break it.

It was severed at the neck. Its pretty much impossible for him to have inflicted it on himself. As the force required is beyond what you could do just flopping around banging your head on walls ( with your hands and legs bound ). It would require a sudden, violent impact. The medical report indicates his head slammed into the back door of the van ( from matching the wound pattern to the bolt pattern on the door ).

This is a partitioned holding cell in the back of a police van ( so its half of the back of a van ) and it only seats 3 ass to ass on the bench. Even if he was not shackled at the legs and not on the floor and was able to stand up there's not exactly any space in there for him to get up any momentum.

He did not do this to himself.

I fully expect the cops to get manslaughter but there's a pretty big jump from manslaughter to murder.

It was already explained that this is "depraved heart" murder charge which is typically a second degree murder charge in most states. So no its not a big jump at all. Its exactly what the depraved heart charge is for legally speaking.

[Gravekeeper]

Annnd the DOJ has launched an investigation into the Baltimore PD. -.-

[Hyena Dandy]

I fully expect the cops to get manslaughter but there's a pretty big jump from manslaughter to murder.

Not that big. The reason only one of them is being charged is that only one of them was in a position that went from 'He did something stupid' to 'He did something he had proof was stupid.' The driver of the car was in a position to be aware of what he had in the back and that it was a deadly position to put someone in, while the others put someone face down in the back, they weren't the ones who were driving.

Most likely, they knew what was going to happen to. But the driver is the one who continued driving despite having a person rattling around back there.

[protege]

One suspension literally had NOTHING to do with his job or him acting inappropriately on the job towards people he has arrested. The other had nothing to do with his interactions with people he arrested. So grasp at straws but those have NOTHING to do with what I said. He has never had an issue nor has anyone filed a report of misbehavior on the job. No complaints about him on the job.

Of course, his "brothers in blue" could be, and probably ARE, covering for him. Then there's this little tidbit, that happened 2 weeks before Gray was killed. Still think the Baltimore PD are stand-up guys? Rice, the most senior officer, threatened that "heads would roll" if cops in a neighboring town didn't go arrest his ex-wife's husband. That little tidbit is what got the department to question his abilities. In other words, if the guy is a scumbag off the clock, he's probably a scumbag on the clock as well.

Let me summarize that. He tried to use his position as a BPD lieutenant to harass someone.

Also, I've seen *several* reports that the BPD engaged in "rough riding" since 1997, and probably earlier. At least 5 other people, or their families, have since come forward with allegations, and received settlements.

[Gravekeeper]

Also, I've seen *several* reports that the BPD engaged in "rough riding" since 1997, and probably earlier.

1980 is the first "BPD breaks a guy's neck and kills him by giving him a rough ride in the back of a van" lawsuit on record. If it goes back that far on record then it goes back even further off record.

And since the BPD attach a clause to victim settlements in lawsuits basically saying they can take the money back if you ever talk about the lawsuit lord knows how much other shit there is. The BPD specifically silence victim details so we only have pay out figures and total counts. Not the details of what they've been doing or how badly. Combine that with them not being required to track or record if a specific officer has multiple brutality lawsuits against him over the course of his career and yeah. The BPD are corrupt scum.

The union of course blocks the city's attempts to reform these little details. So they can keep all their shit behind the blue wall.