Naked Art Class?

[Shangri-laschild]

Being physically naked is not a requirement for this class. Really, it kind of seems like the kind of thing that is added on slightly as a cop out. I mean I'm not saying you can't be creative with the nakedness but it kind of sounds like the option that will be taken by those who don't want to be extra creative with the project or as an easy out for having to figure out how to do the project otherwise. Again, not saying everyone who takes this option is doing it for those reasons but being naked isn't required!

[BlaqueKatt]

Pardon my french, but that's a fucking sexist thing to say.

you forgot heteronormative.

So I agree with NecCat's assessment that this is a case of helicopter parenting, and not of a lecherous teacher.

I'll third that, and add the helicopter parent is potentially the type that caused fox news to blur the breasts on a damn Picasso!

This is the type of pervasive underlying sexism that keeps society ashamed of their bodies and promotes the "legislating morality" mindset.

THIS^

[HYHYBT]

Why the excuses for not making this OFFICIALLY known (not relying on gossip, as several have intimated should be plenty of notice) BEFORE REGISTRATION? The ability to drop the course is not good enough. It's not even good enough to be reasonably presented as if it were good enough, because that still costs students who now have to choose between going through a course they may not have signed up for at all if they knew what it entailed, losing out on however many credits that semester, or hoping they can come up with something else that will fit their needs, meets at a time their now-already-made schedule can accommodate, AND isn't already filled up.

[Greenday]

Why the excuses for not making this OFFICIALLY known (not relying on gossip, as several have intimated should be plenty of notice) BEFORE REGISTRATION? The ability to drop the course is not good enough. It's not even good enough to be reasonably presented as if it were good enough, because that still costs students who now have to choose between going through a course they may not have signed up for at all if they knew what it entailed, losing out on however many credits that semester, or hoping they can come up with something else that will fit their needs, meets at a time their now-already-made schedule can accommodate, AND isn't already filled up.

I have never heard of a class listing its final before registration.

[Hyena Dandy]

Why the excuses for not making this OFFICIALLY known (not relying on gossip, as several have intimated should be plenty of notice) BEFORE REGISTRATION?

Do classes usually do that? Explain what all the coursework will be?

Again, you are signing up for a class on relation to the self in art. If you don't expect this to be a class that will discuss things emotionally vulnerable, I really don't know what to say.

And

because that still costs students who now have to choose between going through a course they may not have signed up for at all if they knew what it entailed, losing out on however many credits that semester, or hoping they can come up with something else that will fit their needs, meets at a time their now-already-made schedule can accommodate, AND isn't already filled up.

A class that you drop early is usually counted different from dropping mid-semester. You usually have a couple days to drop it, the credits aren't lost (it's as if you never took any class,) and you get your money back. That's at least how it's been done where I've been. And where people I've talked to have been.

[Canarr]

Do classes usually do that? Explain what all the coursework will be?

Again, you are signing up for a class on relation to the self in art. If you don't expect this to be a class that will discuss things emotionally vulnerable, I really don't know what to say.

Exactly.

And, as Andara repeatedly said: it's a higher level, elective course, not "Sketching 101". This is a course that you take after several other courses. In my mind, if you've reached a point where you can take higher level electives for your major, and you do not bother to find out what, exactly, they entail? It's your own damn fault.

From what I gather, not a single one of the students actually taking this class has complained. Only the one helicopter parent.

[HYHYBT]

A class that you drop early is usually counted different from dropping mid-semester. You usually have a couple days to drop it, the credits aren't lost (it's as if you never took any class,) and you get your money back. That's at least how it's been done where I've been. And where people I've talked to have been.

Of course. Leaving credits the student was expecting to earn either to be made up in a later term, or else their scrounging around for something else they can take that they can still get into, exactly as I said and which you more than a little bizarrely seem to think this refutes.

(As for whether it's reasonable to expect *this particular thing* or to have a reasonable expectation of being warned of something that would be so obviously relevant for at least some people considering the course, apparently I'm not going to get anything but complete dismissal on that and blame for not expecting people to read minds or engage in gossip. But this is separable.)

[the_std]

(As for whether it's reasonable to expect *this particular thing* or to have a reasonable expectation of being warned of something that would be so obviously relevant for at least some people considering the course, apparently I'm not going to get anything but complete dismissal on that and blame for not expecting people to read minds or engage in gossip. But this is separable.)

Well, no, you're getting complete dismissal because it's unreasonable to expect a high-level elective class to do something that no other class does and give information about its final project before the syllabus has been posted.

[Greenday]

Of course. Leaving credits the student was expecting to earn either to be made up in a later term, or else their scrounging around for something else they can take that they can still get into, exactly as I said and which you more than a little bizarrely seem to think this refutes.

(As for whether it's reasonable to expect *this particular thing* or to have a reasonable expectation of being warned of something that would be so obviously relevant for at least some people considering the course, apparently I'm not going to get anything but complete dismissal on that and blame for not expecting people to read minds or engage in gossip. But this is separable.)

Or, you could do the responsible thing and talk to people who have taken the class. Every year, I spoke with upper-classmen when coming up with my schedules year to year.

What's that phrase that's constantly used on CS? Lack of planning on your part does not constitute as an emergency on my part? If you take a class without researching it, that's your fault.

[Hyena Dandy]

Of course. Leaving credits the student was expecting to earn either to be made up in a later term, or else their scrounging around for something else they can take that they can still get into, exactly as I said and which you more than a little bizarrely seem to think this refutes.

I misunderstood. I thought you were implying that they got a zero. "Miscommunication" is not bizarre.

(As for whether it's reasonable to expect *this particular thing* or to have a reasonable expectation of being warned of something that would be so obviously relevant for at least some people considering the course, apparently I'm not going to get anything but complete dismissal on that and blame for not expecting people to read minds or engage in gossip. But this is separable.)

Again. You're asked to be naked, or emotionally vulnerable. In a course about relationship to yourself. If it was ONLY nudity, I might consider that a little odd. Nudity, or make a work of art that is emotionally revealing, in a class about relationship between an artist's persona and thier work, and specifically a high-level elective art class...

Look, shit happens. Sometimes, a final sucks. I've dropped classes day one for reasons as well. I dont' expect all the coursework to be listed in the class description. Because I recognize that while inconvenient, I shouldn't expect the world to mold so anything I might care about is mentioned.

[Canarr]

Or, you could do the responsible thing and talk to people who have taken the class. Every year, I spoke with upper-classmen when coming up with my schedules year to year.

What's that phrase that's constantly used on CS? Lack of planning on your part does not constitute as an emergency on my part? If you take a class without researching it, that's your fault.

Exactly; it's just the sensible thing to do. There is ALWAYS more to a class than the curriculum - is the professor a dick, maybe? Is he a bigot of some kind? Does he play favorites? How does he grade? Does he maybe hate another professor, and hold it against you if you have a good relationship with him?

That's the kind of stuff that you only find out if you talk to people who took the class themselves. And the same would go for any kind of special requirements for projects or finals - none of which, in this case, seem unreasonable for the kind of course it is, like HD already put forth.

[HYHYBT]

Course requirements are different than things like the professor's personality. Some people like to keep to themselves. Why should gossiping with those who have already taken the class be NECESSARY to find out something that significant about its contents? (And no, neither the course title nor its description automatically confers that anything equivalent will be a required part of the class. At best, it suggests such might be, which isn't the same thing at all.)

[edit: replaced second paragraph entirely] Given a situation where the complaint is not the contents of the course, but only a particular aspect of it is not made clear before registration, a conflict so absurdly simple to resolve as a minor modification of the course description, it seems to me unreasonable NOT to make that adjustment unless there is some compelling harm that would occur from doing so. What is that harm?

[Canarr]

Course requirements are different than things like the professor's personality. Some people like to keep to themselves. Why should gossiping with those who have already taken the class be NECESSARY to find out something that significant about its contents? (And no, neither the course title nor its description automatically confers that anything equivalent will be a required part of the class. At best, it suggests such might be, which isn't the same thing at all.)

Look, the course discription reads:

104A. Performing the Self (4)

Using autobiography, dream, confession, fantasy, or other means to invent one’s self in a new way, or to evoke the variety of selves in our imagination, the course experiments with and explores the rich possibilities available to the contemporary artist in his or her own persona.

If that doesn't tell you that you're expected to bring out something personal about yourself ("autobiography", "confession") or explore your fantasies ("dream", "fantasy"), then you really have no business being in college.

No, it doesn't say that you need to be nude; but that's not really a problem, since you really don't, if you don't want to.

[edit: replaced second paragraph entirely] Given a situation where the complaint is not the contents of the course, but only a particular aspect of it is not made clear before registration, a conflict so absurdly simple to resolve as a minor modification of the course description, it seems to me unreasonable NOT to make that adjustment unless there is some compelling harm that would occur from doing so. What is that harm?

I've no idea what you're trying to say here.

[Shangri-laschild]

Course requirements are different than things like the professor's personality. Some people like to keep to themselves. Why should gossiping with those who have already taken the class be NECESSARY to find out something that significant about its contents?

It's not necessary. Go to the department and get a copy of the syllabus (or last semester's) before you sign up so you can make sure it's a class you want to take.

[Lindsay B.]

In theory ... I believe that it would be a good idea to add a note to the course description itself, clearly stating this particular aspect of the requirements. This is a bit different from the usual issues that students have with what a professor will expect of them. It's much more foreseeable that a student might have trouble with this.

In practice ... I am not really bothered by the fact that they don't. As others have pointed out, it is extremely unlikely that a student could be taking Art classes in this college for any length of time and remain unaware of this particular course and professor. I doubt that any of the students in this class really didn't know what they were getting into when they signed up for it.

As for dropping a class during the first week and being unable to find a suitable replacement course for your schedule ... Yes, that's inconvenient and frustrating, but it happens. When I was in college, it was actually a fairly common issue if a student found that a particular course wasn't what they bargained for. You just deal with it. If you really can't afford to lose the credits, then go to the department during the Registration period and get specific information on the classes so you know what you're signing up for. If you're in college, then you're an adult, and old enough to take initiative to do things like that. They're not expected to hold your hand and give you every single thing you might need or want.

Also, when all is said and done ... Suppose that this professor, or the department, had explicitly stated the course requirements in advance. Would that have prevented any of this from happening?

Honestly, I don't think so. As others have also pointed out, it's the student's mother who is complaining, not the student. And she really seems to be complaining about the requirement itself, not whether or not it was made clear in advance. Well, her daughter was the one who chose to take the class, so it seems to me that this woman should be taking the matter up with her, not the professor.

The mother claimed that there was no notification of this requirement before May. But the fact that other students have stated that it was made clear on the first day of classes makes me suspect that the real issue wasn't that the daughter didn't know, but that she didn't tell her mother about it. Well, again, that's between the mother and daughter. It's not the professor's responsibility, nor the college's, to make sure that students communicate with their parents.