Corporal Punishment in Schools

[guywithashovel]

When I was a kid, both of the elementary schools I attended allowed the teachers to paddle unruly students. However, they couldn't do it without the parents' permission. One of these schools was a suburban school in a mid-sized Midwestern city. The other one was a rural Appalachian school.

One time, in the suburban school, I recall a boy in my class getting paddled by my teacher. I was in second grade. She paddled him out in the hall. However, the classroom door was left open, and we could all hear the paddling taking place. After it was over, the teacher came back into the classroom and sat down at her desk. She left the paddled boy out in the hall. Shortly thereafter, he got angry and started opening and slamming the classroom door repeatedly. She went back out in the hall to deal with him, but I'm not sure if she paddled him again or not.

By the time I had gotten to the fourth grade, my family had moved and I was now attending the rural school. One day, several other boys and I had gotten in trouble and had been sent to the principal's office. All of us were sitting in the chairs outside the office. Eventually, the principal came out and called one of the other boys' names.

"Come on, Jerry," he said, almost jovially. Jerry was this boy's name. The principal motioned for Jerry to walk with him. Jerry did so.

The principal led Jerry into one of the classrooms down the hall. None of the rest of us knew what was going on. But then we heard a loud yelp coming from down the hall, and a moment later we saw the principal return with a long, wooden paddle in his hand.

"You four aren't too far off," he admonished us, pointing the paddle at us as he walked back into his office.

When we were permitted to return to the classroom, we saw Jerry sitting in his desk with his eyes cast down. He look as though he had been crying.

I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about this. Do you know of any schools that still permit this type of punishment? It seems to me like most schools have put it by the wayside in favor of other forms of discipline. Do you believe it is a form of punishment that the schools should be using on the kids?

[Slytovhand]

I've never been a fan of it (granted, I don't have kids, which apparently changes your perspective on it )

I had it back in primary school, and remember numerous times getting the cane over the fingers for not doing homework (yeah... like that's a smart reason!!)

I think kids need to be treated as individuals, and as human beings. Not everyone is the same. But also, being all mamby-pamby (as another thread on here has indicated - it was a few months back... stars for doing some drawing or something???) doesn't work either.

[tropicsgoddess]

My family is from South America and when my parents were in school, if you did bad, you got a paddling not only from the teacher, but the principal and the walk home....oh you're in for it, the aunts/uncles, grandparents and then...dun dun dun..your parents. I grew up in the US and I truly believe that corporal punishment should make a comeback with the way kids behave in school these days.

[Flyndaran]

Assaulting children is no better than assaulting adults. It is and should remain criminal.

[AdminAssistant]

I got paddled. My nephew gets paddled. I'd say it works pretty darn well.

Honestly, many of today's parents are letting schools, activities, and television raise their children for them. Then they tell the schools 'No, you can't spank my kid', 'No, you can't talk badly to my kid', etc. Mom quit her job with the school because she couldn't deal with the kids and THEIR PARENTS.

It all falls under the large umbrella of 'child worship' in this country. Every child is a special snowflake, everybody gets a trophy, everybody gets on the honor roll, academic excellence cannot be celebrated, class has to be taught at the rate of the slowest kids, NOT the brightest kids, and parents deserve to have everyone kowtow to them for they have spawned!!

[Sylvia727]

Corporal punishment should not be in schools for two reasons. One, it doesn't fit the teacher/student relationship. The kids are there to be taught, not raised. If a child is acting out, and the usual time-out/detention isn't helping, then the teacher needs to dump the problem back onto the parents. It's not their responsibility to fix bratty behavior, it's the parents'. Two, by the time a child is old enough to be enrolled in school, they're too old for corporal punishment. The best advantage of corporal is that it can be administered at the exact moment of the crime, thereby creating a connection between "do wrong" and "get hurt". When parents deliver a light swat to a two-year-old's bum, it's instant, it's unpleasant, but it doesn't hurt. By the time a child is five or six years old, they can understand cause and effect even with delays. Once a child is old enough to fully comprehend "you didn't do your chores yesterday, so no television today," there's no reason to continue corporal punishment.

Corporal punishment should never hurt. If welts are raised on the child's skin, that's child abuse. Children have every right to live free from bodily injury. Why would anyone administer corporal punishment to a school-age child? Either they're using humiliation and intimidation, or they're using enough force to cause some significant pain. If they're causing lasting pain, that's physical abuse, and if they're using humiliation and intimidation, that's emotional abuse. I would never let my child be enrolled in a school that practiced corporal punishment. Even without my permission to strike my child, the teachers are still abusing him by letting him know when other children are being paddled.

[AdminAssistant]

The kids are there to be taught, not raised. If a child is acting out, and the usual time-out/detention isn't helping, then the teacher needs to dump the problem back onto the parents.

I agree with you, Sylvia, and in a perfect world this would work. But what happens when parents won't accept the problem or believe their child over the teacher?

[Boozy]

No way in hell would I ever allow some teacher or school administrator to lay a hand on any child of mine. If they have a discipline problem with my child, they can talk to me.

Parents send their children to school to be educated, not beaten.

[MadMike]

However, they couldn't do it without the parents' permission.

Interesting, at my school it was the opposite -- they could do it unless they parents told them they couldn't.

Now, I'm torn on the whole issue of parents doing it, but if anyone should be doing it, I don't think it should be the school. It should be the parents.

At my son's school, they don't allow it at all, so it's a nonissue for him.

[Talon]

I agree with Sylvia, c.p has no place in the schools.

I have a heavy personal bias against c.p. The place where I attended elementary school applied their punishments capriciously. Forget to do homework? Get a question wrong? Bring out the stick. Sooner or later everyone, even the better students got beaten. My worst memory was when a large portion of my class was acting out, the teachers beat everyone, whether they were misbehaving or not. I've got nothing good to say about the practice.

Even in the parenting context, I would argue that corporal punishment should only be used as a last resort. The problem kids from my elementary school? In my extremely unscientific opinion, they had started to become accustomed to being beaten. The deterrent effect was lost on them. Now what? Turn up the intensity? I think not.

I agree with you, Sylvia, and in a perfect world this would work. But what happens when parents won't accept the problem or believe their child over the teacher?

If the parents are convinced their little angels can do no wrong, then your question is moot. If the kid misbehaves and gets punished, he/she will cry to the parents. They'll raise a huge stink. And they'll coddle and po-po their precious, again reinforcing the message that they can do no wrong. Any positive effects from the punishment are completely undermined.

[Gerrinson]

As far as corporal punishment in schools - I'd disagree with it. Although I did once observe a fist fight between another kid and our fifth grade teacher. She totally pwned him. I imagine it's really disheartening to be remembered as 'the kid that got beat up by Mrs. K'.

Oh, yeah, he swung first, so he had it coming.

I completely disagree with using a paddle to administer corporal punishment - that's the equivalent of a weapon and you can easily do more harm than intended.

Bare hand spankings, though, are fine, but only from a parent/guardian.

And when done right, a spanking will get a child's attention and teach them that your threats of punishment aren't empty threats. This garners their respect (basic primate instict is on your side in this) and thus the need for future punishment is reduced.

And, for the record, I've never had to administer more than 3 spankings to any child to bring their behavior to a point where they would rather obey or compromise rather then get completely out of line. And yes, they were proper spankings - two to three swats with an open hand on the butt. No bruises, no injuries, just noise and a bit of a stinging sensation for them. Works like a charm.

[MadMike]

Oh, yeah, he swung first, so he had it coming.

That sounds more like self-defense, not corporal punishment.

[Sylvia727]

I agree with you, Sylvia, and in a perfect world this would work. But what happens when parents won't accept the problem or believe their child over the teacher?

Then you just keep dumping it back on the parents. If the child refuses to learn, then they repeat the grade again and again. If the child acts out, call the parents and have them bring the child home from school (and miss work). If the child continues to act out, move them to in school suspension, expel them or transfer them to an alternative school depending on age and severity. The schools are there to provide a service: education. It is the child's and the parents' responsibility to make proper use of that service. If a parent fails to enforce learning behavior in their child (obvious exceptions for mentally or emotionally handicapped), then that is a form of neglect. The teacher teaches; the parent parents. If the parent fails to parent, then that problem needs to be addressed from a different source. The teachers should not try to pick up the slack.

I once drove my little brother home from school at 10 am so my mom wouldn't have to miss work. I was furious at his teacher (she provoked him into a crying fit and then punished him for it), but the principal did alright. He took my little bro out of the classroom immediately and scheduled an appointment with the mother, the teacher and the school counselor. Since he hadn't been kept up to date on the situation, it was the best he could do. I'd rather remove my kid from an unstable situation and sort the mess out later than leave him in there while we worked it out.

[guywithashovel]

Now, I'm torn on the whole issue of parents doing it, but if anyone should be doing it, I don't think it should be the school. It should be the parents.

That's pretty much how I am. My grandparents grew up in rural schools where paddling was allowed and done quite frequently. They have told too many stories of kids who were paddled too hard, when they didn't really deserve it, etc.

[Evandril]

Personally, I'm for it, with the stipulation that it is not something the teacher themselves do, but 'principal' level. I also do like the idea of using a paddle, though one designed to sting, rather than injure (My school had one that had holes in it...The thing scared people, but wouldn't hurt by the time school was over for the day) I also feel that the parents should be directly notified if their child did anything wrong enough to warrant that level of punishment.

I do mildly agree with one thing Flyndaran said, though...with the opposite view. So called 'blanket parties' and the like used to be fairly common in the military, if someone did something exceptionally stupid, but they got micro-managed out of existance...and there are FAR more problems now, since the 'punishments' given...really aren't.