Is it a hate crime? Are you sure?

[mjr]

A website dedicated to FAKE hate crimes...

They were reported as REAL hate crimes, but in many cases, were complete hoaxes...

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

[Andara Bledin]

That site is awful.

It's like it's trying to be the Snopes of hate crime reports, only with maybe a fraction of the usability and transparency.

The fact that the list includes everything they have from 'suspected' (by whom, exactly?) to proven with no visible means by which to sort them, and no indication on the list page of which is which.

So they're essentially classing Dolezal the same as Dzanic, and that's misleading at the very least.

For those who don't want to look them up, Seherzada Dzanic is a Bosnian woman in Louisiana who stopped her car, got out, laid on the ground, and then claimed something about some black men threatening her and mentioning her race (how would they even know?), the entire melodrama caught on a surveillance camera.

Meanwhile, Rachel Dolezal is a prominent member of the NAACP who changed her ethnicity to become so and has dealt with more than just the noose incident from those actually practicing bigotry against the black community. She's in the news currently because her parents are "outing" the fact that she grew up as a white woman. The NAACP doesn't seem to much care about her former ethnicity.

[mjr]

That site is awful.

It's like it's trying to be the Snopes of hate crime reports, only with maybe a fraction of the usability and transparency.

The fact that the list includes everything they have from 'suspected' (by whom, exactly?) to proven with no visible means by which to sort them, and no indication on the list page of which is which.

Agreed. It's horribly put together.

So they're essentially classing Dolezal the same as Dzanic, and that's misleading at the very least.

I didn't know about Dzanic. Dolezal, though, I've found that...interesting.

Meanwhile, Rachel Dolezal is a prominent member of the NAACP

Not any more. She resigned.

The NAACP doesn't seem to much care about her former ethnicity.

They don't. They might, though, have interest in the fake hate crimes she committed against herself...

[HYHYBT]

That's an accusation that requires strong proof, and nothing from the above site or anything of its ilk counts in the least towards that.

[Bloodsoul]

Meanwhile, Rachel Dolezal is a prominent member of the NAACP who changed her ethnicity…

Wait what? I recently heard about something like that happening… in the pages of some Punisher comic books reviewed on "Atop the Fourth Wall."

[mjr]

Wait what? I recently heard about something like that happening… in the pages of some Punisher comic books reviewed on "Atop the Fourth Wall."

Yeah, just Google Rachel Dolezel.

She pretended/pretends to be a black woman. And now a few people are saying "she can be black if she wants to be". Basically, "she's black if she says she is".

She basically got extensions or something, and does some sort of weird spray tan thing to make her skin darker.

She's also claimed numerous "hate crimes" against herself, none of which have ever panned out.

[Andara Bledin]

People have changed their ethnicities all the time. It's just that it's a little harder when a particular ethnicity is "claimed" by a specific race that's obviously not the same as another.

Nobody blinks if a kid who grew up in a ghetto gets out and starts acting like someone from a nice suburb. Nobody points at someone who converts to a religion that also requires joining the community and changing one's lifestyle.

Iron Eyes Cody was born the son of Italian immigrants, but lived his entire adult life as a native American and was recognized for his contribution to native American rights.

As for the hate crimes, we don't have enough info on those. Most hate crimes never 'pan out' so it's not like her reports are out of the ordinary. As someone apparently a minority working for minority rights, it wouldn't be unusual for her to have received threats, though I imagine those aren't particularly common on Washington.

[TheHuckster]

Iron Eyes Cody was born the son of Italian immigrants, but lived his entire adult life as a native American and was recognized for his contribution to native American rights.

And he, like Dolezel, intentionally lied, saying they were of that ethnic ancestry, something one can't change. Give both of them props for supporting a worthy cause (although if one lies about something like this, it makes me wonder what other things they might lie about just to promote an otherwise good cause), but deceiving people like this just isn't correct.

It's one thing to adopt another ethnicity's culture and traditions and identify yourself as such. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's another thing entirely to say, in so many words, that your ancestors came from Africa (or were Native American), when they really didn't, just to invoke sympathy. It doesn't aid in the cause, and instead instigates doubt in what your true intentions are.

[Hyena Dandy]

There's a reason that Dolezal and Cody are both, at best, controversial figures to their respective groups. Because it is possible to identify with another group, at the same time, to claim a non-existent biological tie is another thing. The idea that 'Transracial' is akin to 'Transgender' is a bit of a difficult thing to parse as well. There's a significant number of black people on both sides of this, it's hardly cut and dried to say that "The black community supports her/The native community supports him." As well as just what extent that reaches.

[TheHuckster]

The idea of transracial being akin to transgender is difficult to parse because they are two very different things.

If a person with European roots was adopted by two people with African roots, and lived in a neighborhood populated with people of their kin, then of course that person will be greatly influenced by the culture going on around them compared to if they lived in your typical white suburban neighborhood. They aren't going to have the same dilemma transgender people would growing up (e.g. I feel wrong having white skin vs. I feel wrong having a penis). They aren't going to attempt to have surgery to have darker skin, nor would they be at odds with their identity.

And it doesn't have to be someone who had that much influence in their lives, of course. One could have a great interest in a particular ethnic or racial culture and wish to integrate with that for any reason.

A transgender is much more than just "acting" the part. It requires surgery and hormone therapy to correct whatever identity issues they have with their gender.

A "transrace" if such a word even makes sense, is really all about "acting" the part. It's limited to someone who adopts the culture and traditions of an ethnicity whose genetics are not really present in their own DNA. They can be as integrated with that ethnic background as much as they want, but it doesn't change their DNA. Nor does changing their skin color or wearing different clothes. They could even call themselves someone of that ethnicity if they want, but as soon as they start to imply that they had ancestry with that ethnicity when they in fact hadn't, then they've crossed the line into deception. Whatever genes you have in you, you can't change.

[Andara Bledin]

They aren't going to have the same dilemma transgender people would growing up (e.g. I feel wrong having white skin vs. I feel wrong having a penis). They aren't going to attempt to have surgery to have darker skin, nor would they be at odds with their identity.

Well, you know, except for the people who already do that.

This whole attempt to separate out how transracial/transethnic/trans-whatever from transgender is really fascinating, but it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Just like, genetically, a person with fully white parents will always be white, someone who was born male with typical male genitalia will always be genetically male, no matter what hormones or physical alteration happens.

Why are we finally accepting that some people are born with an identity at odds with their sex, but we balk at the idea of some people born with an identity at odds with their culture?

As I said in another forum discussing this: If you aren't a medical professional and you aren't planning to procreate with them, I don't see that it's really anyone's business what their genetic makeup is.

[TheHuckster]

It doesn't matter, and if someone is going to say they identify more with being black than white, their skin color doesn't matter in that case.

The main point I'm making is you can adopt and even identify with any race you want, as soon as you deceptively say you were born in a genetic line that you weren't, then that's where I draw the line between alright and not alright.

[Tama]

But to be fair, this argument sounds suspiciously like the one they use for anti-trans, that is, "you can't change what you are."

[TheHuckster]

How so?

When you state that you had grandparents who lived in Africa, that's a statement that is absolutely backed by facts. And if those statements turn out to not be factual, then it's a lie. That has nothing to do with "you can't change who you are." I was born in the United States. I can't change that without a time machine.

Looking at Caitlyn Jenner, let's suppose nobody had heard of her before, and she just started becoming a celebrity after she changed. And she took on feminist issues saying when she was a girl in elementary school, someone picked on her for playing with G. I. Joe's because she was a girl playing with "boy toys." Or she was talking about how she had been discriminated against when she was looking for jobs shortly after college... and then you come to find out she was, at least on the outside, a man until later on, nobody had any clue she was transsexual during that period in her life, and everything she had said was not true. Stating that she was wrong for doing that is not anti-trans, nor is it sexist. She lied about herself. People don't come against her for being transexual, but rather for her being deceptive.

[Tama]

I didn't know about her claiming to be descended from Africans. Sorry, my bad.