$15/hour and paid internships...

[mjr]

Ok, regardless as to how I feel one way or the other about the $15/hour thing, I saw an interesting piece in one of the local papers.

One of our local (i.e. major metro) papers just hired a new editor. He wrote an "intro" column about himself.

At the end, he posted that they're looking for some interns for paid internships.

This particular newspaper has, in the past, advocated for the $15/hour "minimum/living wage" through it's Op-Ed pieces (via Opinion writers that work for this particular news rag, and it's editorial board).

Well, they noted that "college interns" would get paid $15/hour for this internship. High schoolers would get paid minimum wage.

My argument is that if the newspaper itself (through it's op-ed pieces) is going to advocate for the $15/hour thing, then it's a bit hypocritical of them to pay the high school kids minimum wage, because as one commenter put it, "They're in high school."

So what do you think?

[Kheldarson]

The point of the $15/hr is that it's a living wage. Presumably an unemancipated teen is not in need of a living wage. Also, I do believe other nations have a teen wage structure separate from the adult wage for the same reason.

[Jetfire]

Pretty much that. I'm all for a Living Minimum wage level, but for Teenagers who really are just earning extra spending money/gaining experience/etc..., I've got no problem have a lesser rate for them. Now if that Teen can prove/show they are living independently, then they should get bumped up to the "Adult minimum wage" at least.

[Andara Bledin]

At least we're to the point where interns are paid.

It used to be that you'd intern for free as an artifact of the whole 'learning a trade' thing and were basically abused on the theory that you'd learn something valuable while there. Usually it worked out that the people in charge could have a free assistant.

[mjr]

The point of the $15/hr is that it's a living wage. Presumably an unemancipated teen is not in need of a living wage. Also, I do believe other nations have a teen wage structure separate from the adult wage for the same reason.

So you don't see the smallest amount of hypocrisy there?

I mean, whether we want to admit it or not, we're all hypocrites about something. I believe anyone who says otherwise is disingenuous or lying to themselves.

So let me see if I understand this position: it's OK for a teenager (based solely on the fact that they are teenagers) to make minimum wage, but a college student can make the $15/hour?

I mean, how many teenagers work at these jobs where people are advocating a $15/hr minimum wage?

We don't see people protesting for a "$15/hour living wage, except for those damn kids!"

If $15/hour is a "living wage" and can help someone, why not a teenager working in a newspaper intern program, or fast food, or anywhere else for that matter? Maybe they want to save up for a car, or college, or whatever.

Again, this is an argument aside from what I may or may not think about $15/hour.

[HYHYBT]

I'd say it's only slightly hypocritical, if at all.

As with many other regulations on business, it's forcing everyone to behave up to a certain standard that allows those who would like to to do so without penalty... and, as Andara said, that they're paying interns at all, let alone paying any of them that much, is already going further than required.

[s_stabeler]

it's ,more that a kid is unlikely to need to support themselves- and the reason why a $15 minimum wage is advocated is because people can't support themselves on the minimum wage. If a kid can prove that they have to live on their own, then allow them the adult rate, but I see no hypocrisy in havng a lower rate for teenagers.

[Kheldarson]

So you don't see the smallest amount of hypocrisy there?

Does that teen have rent? Insurance? Utility bills? Groceries? Kids? The point of the $15/hr argument is that a single person on our current minimum wage does not support them without government aid. A teen may be saving up, and that's great, but they don't have the sheer number of bills to pay prior to allocating savings.

[mjr]

Does that teen have rent? Insurance? Utility bills? Groceries? Kids?

At 16 years of age (over 20 years ago) I had a $240/month vehicle payment, a phone bill of my own, gas for my vehicle, and I also helped my mother from time-to-time with a bill when she needed extra money. And yes, occasionally I'd have to pay for my own food.

And I played sports, went to high school, and worked a lot of hours.

So you were saying?

[Kheldarson]

At 16 years of age (over 20 years ago) I had a $240/month vehicle payment, a phone bill of my own, gas for my vehicle, and I also helped my mother from time-to-time with a bill when she needed extra money. And yes, occasionally I'd have to pay for my own food.

And I played sports, went to high school, and worked a lot of hours.

So you were saying?

At 16 (about 13 years ago), I played sports, went to school, and worked summer jobs. I wasn't going to get a license until 18. My job money got saved up for trips and games and college.

Point still is that your average teen does not need to make a "living" wage.

[mjr]

Point still is that your average teen does not need to make a "living" wage.

So then you're on the record as being absolutely OK with some people who are working not making a living wage, because they don't meet certain criteria?

[Kheldarson]

So then you're on the record as being absolutely OK with some people who are working not making a living wage, because they don't meet certain criteria?

If you are in a position where the majority of your living expenses are covered by another, i.e. you are a dependent of another, like say, being a child/teen, then no, you do not need to make a living wage as you are not supporting yourself.

[Andara Bledin]

At 16 years of age (over 20 years ago) I had a $240/month vehicle payment, a phone bill of my own, gas for my vehicle, and I also helped my mother from time-to-time with a bill when she needed extra money. And yes, occasionally I'd have to pay for my own food.

Right. Because a car payment is the same as paying rent, in addition to a car payment and buying every meal.

That you might have had some expenses is a backwards way of proving the other side's argument; compared to having to support yourself, your expenses were downright trivial.

So then you're on the record as being absolutely OK with some people who are working not making a living wage, because they don't meet certain criteria?

Minors already have reduced or restricted rights. Why should this particular frontier not be similar?

[mjr]

If you are in a position where the majority of your living expenses are covered by another, i.e. you are a dependent of another, like say, being a child/teen, then no, you do not need to make a living wage as you are not supporting yourself.

The same could be said for college students, could it not?

Many of them are still supported by their parents, in some fashion. Ergo, why would THEY need the $15/hr internship?

[s_stabeler]

The same could be said for college students, could it not?

Many of them are still supported by their parents, in some fashion. Ergo, why would THEY need the $15/hr internship?

except with college students, it is the choice of the parents. with high school kids, the parents have to support them.

or, to put it bluntly: most high school kids have most of their expenses covered by their parents. Most college school kids have to cover most of their expenses themselves.

If a minor is emancipated, and therefore legally responsible for paying their own bills, then I have no problem considering them an adult for the purposes of the minimum wage. But for someone who legally has to be supported by their parents? they don't need $15 per hour.