Judge sends kids to behavior center (juvie?) for refusing relationship with father.

[Greenday]

Then send him to therapy, not juvie.

"juvie". A clearly misunderstood term these days. The place they were being sent was not prison for kids. The place they were being sent to was more like boarding school that you just can't bail on.

[Rageaholic]

"juvie". A clearly misunderstood term these days. The place they were being sent was not prison for kids. The place they were being sent to was more like boarding school that you just can't bail on.

That's why I put "Juvie?" with a question mark. Some are saying this is no better than juvie while others are saying it's not as bad. Since I've never been to either place, I can't speak from experience. However, she was clearly using it as a threat against someone who's only crime was being caught in the middle of a long custody battle. It's the most blatant example of punishing the victim I've heard of (outside of Sharia Law).

[s_stabeler]

That's sort of the point of juvie- it is more about rehabilitation than punishment. it doesn't make it juvie any less than rehabilitation programs in prison don't make them "a hotel room you can't bail on"

and again, even presuming the judge is correct, and the mother is brainwashing the kids to hate their father, what benefit exactly is gained from sending them to this "boarding school you can't bail on" that wouldn't be gained by removing them temporarily from both ( or rather, temporarily from the father and permanently from the mother, PRESUMING she brainwashed them- as in, if there is indeed evidence the mother brainwashed the kids. if she didn't, the there is very little reaso not to allow the kids not to see their dad, as he would be an abusive asshole), and putting the kids in a foster home while they get therapy, and then reuniting the with their father?

Ultimately, the situation comes down to how far a judge can go in forcing a kid to have a relationship with a parent they do not want to have a relationship with. I personally feel that the judgement in this case risks, if the kids actually have been abused by their father, that the abuse was justified because he was their father. that is extremely dangerous, so dismissing it out of hand because he was never charged is not a good idea. ( Oh, and it isn't the judge's job to make the argument that the kids were brainwashed either: that is down to the father/father's lawyer)

[Greenday]

I personally feel that the judgement in this case risks, if the kids actually have been abused by their father, that the abuse was justified because he was their father. that is extremely dangerous, so dismissing it out of hand because he was never charged is not a good idea. ( Oh, and it isn't the judge's job to make the argument that the kids were brainwashed either: that is down to the father/father's lawyer)

That seems EXTREMELY unlikely. The courts are already biased against men in family court so for the judge to be pushing it so much just seems absurd.

As for it being proven that the kids were brainwashed, no one said the judge made that argument. There are usually some kind of psychological analysis done when it gets this far.

[Herebecause]

"juvie". A clearly misunderstood term these days. The place they were being sent was not prison for kids. The place they were being sent to was more like boarding school that you just can't bail on.

The judge herself talked about how by taking this choice, it meant the girl would be going to the bathroom in front of others. That doesn't sound like boarding school, that sounds like jail.

Regarding Grave Keeper's comment about the father moving them to Israel, it may not have been such a culture shock. Both of the parents are Israeli and their families live in Israel, so they have most likely been there plenty of times. I think what this judge did is horrific, but when the mother left Israel with the kids she did so by picking up and leaving. The oldest was not able to go to Israel for his Bar Mitzvah because the mother is concerned she'll be arrested when she returns due to how she left with the children last time. I'm reserving judgment on which parent is the one harming the children more, but either way, therapy in a place where the children can be children vs in a juvenile detention center is a move in the right direction for helping these children.

[Gravekeeper]

The judge herself talked about how by taking this choice, it meant the girl would be going to the bathroom in front of others. That doesn't sound like boarding school, that sounds like jail.

^ Came here to say this. The judge specifically threatened her with shame and alluded to how uncomfortable she would be even trying to sleep there. She also wanted them separated and kept away from each other. I fail to see how separating and isolating all 3 children then submitting them to shame and discomfort is in their best interests in any way shape or form.

The faciity in question offers temporary residence ( where these 3 were heading to begin with ), long term residence ( where they were threatened to be kept until they either talked to their dad or turned 18 ) and secure detention facilities for dangerous young offenders, those with drug addictions, emotional problems, etc.

The wing that these 3 were sent too, despite the judge's threats, is the one for temporary residents. These are children that have been abused or neglected and have been removed from their homes temporarily by the state until safe residence can be found. Its not locked down. But it is monitored 24/7 and segregated by gender so the younger sister cannot be with her brothers. All children are supervised around the clock. They cannot recieve incoming calls. They can make monitored outgoing calls. There is no phone, tv, internet or anything of that nature permitted to them.

They get 2 and a half visiting hours a week. 1 hour on Sundays and an hour and a half on Weds. But only with court approved visitors. Since the judge ordered that neither the mother nor any member of her family is allowed to visit the children the only people that can visit them are the father or their attorneys. Since the father fucked off back to Israel, the only people that would be visiting would thus be attorneys.

They were in there for almost 2 weeks before the public outcry forced her to rollback her decision.

I'm reserving judgment on which parent is the one harming the children more, but either way, therapy in a place where the children can be children vs in a juvenile detention center is a move in the right direction for helping these children.

Well, the judge literally implied that the mother is like Charles Manson, while conversely showering the father with so much absurd praise I can't help but wonder if she didn't get a campaign contribution under the table.

So I'm not sure that question can be clearly answered unless this judge is removed from the case entirely.

Regardless of that though, the judge refuses to allow the children to make "adult" decisions for themselves by wishing to not see their father and yet punished them for making the "adult" decision to be held in contempt of court.

[Rageaholic]

Came here to say this. The judge specifically threatened her with shame and alluded to how uncomfortable she would be even trying to sleep there. She also wanted them separated and kept away from each other. I fail to see how separating and isolating all 3 children then submitting them to shame and discomfort is in their best interests in any way shape or form.

Yeah, I mean, if she thought the brother was brainwashed and could be a bad influence on the younger siblings, I can understand keeping them separated (at least from him), but everything else, from keeping them locked up in the facility, to using psychological threats on children is Nancy Grace territory (shudder).

[Greenday]

Regardless of that though, the judge refuses to allow the children to make "adult" decisions for themselves by wishing to not see their father and yet punished them for making the "adult" decision to be held in contempt of court.

This is the same shit I dealt with when I was under 18. My mom would tell me I had to see my father and that if I refused, they could send me to jail. So I just called everyone's bluff and I won. These kids did the same and lost.