Oregon shooting

[s_stabeler]

either some form of self-defense lessons ( off the top of my head, there are martial arts that allow you to use someone's weight against them, which would help a lot), some other weapon, or yes, in those circumstances, a gun would be justified.

I should make it clear: i don't support a complete ban on guns. I just don't think that someone should be able to walk into walmart, buy a gun and ammo, and go off and use it. ( which is what some of the gun lobby seem to want)

[Greenday]

I just don't think that someone should be able to walk into walmart, buy a gun and ammo, and go off and use it. ( which is what some of the gun lobby seem to want)

Which is also what the majority of the gun lobby don't want. And even then, most of the guns used in these major school shootings didn't even belong to them. They were stolen or obtained via straw purchases.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

I am a 5'5" 140 pound female, my stalker at that time was a 6'4" 250 pound male, how exactly should I "overpower" or delay someone until the police decide to respond?

The same way that 5'8", 120 pound female me took down my 6'3" 290 pound male attacker when I was at a sleep away camp. (He had been nice at the beginning, then when I refused to go out with him he became super hostile.)

Even in an adrenaline fueled "combat" situation, muscle memory triggers at certain stimuli to have me able to defend myself even against a bigger opponent.

I am a 200% supporter of everyone taking self defense courses.

If one wants to go further into a full martial art, there are so many styles out there that every build, body type, and mentality pretty much has one that can minimize weakness and maximize strengths. (Mine personally is Taekwaendo for my body time, and Wing Chun for my personality.)

I support schools teaching self defense courses to all their students (there are several styles that focus solely on defense for delay tactics or defense to give an opening for escape.) I want every school, even in the smallest towns, to do this, and there be places (kind of like YMCAs) where people can continue to practice so they can get that muscle memory that will trigger in a dangerous situation.

Once the enemy has a gun though it's now a whole lot harder to escape and defend. -.- But I am one example of a "light weight female" still being able to defend herself against a raging horsebeast male (with a height and weight advantage on her) that didn't like what she had to say to him.

[Gravekeeper]

Which is also what the majority of the gun lobby don't want.

The NRA is the second most powerful lobbying group in the entire country. Hence my comment about false equivalency. It has its own PAC and its own legal division. Its political power is immense. They are, by far, the vast majority of the gun lobby.

The modern NRA opposes virtually any regulation on guns including waiting periods and background checks ( an issue they use to support ). They do in fact want exactly what s_stabeler said.

So you are incorrect, sorry to say. The NRA is the gun lobby and want they want is the majority.

[Gravekeeper]

But I am one example of a "light weight female" still being able to defend herself against a raging horsebeast male (with a height and weight advantage on her) that didn't like what she had to say to him.

My 5'7 ex likes to tell the story of when she was 16 and a grown man tried to sexually assault her. She defended herself by quite literally popping one of the guy's testicles. Specifically indicating that they pop sort of like grapes.

She always accompanies this story with instructional hand gestures and prefers to tell it at crowded restaurants when dining with male friends or colleagues.

[s_stabeler]

Which is also what the majority of the gun lobby don't want. And even then, most of the guns used in these major school shootings didn't even belong to them. They were stolen or obtained via straw purchases.

and guns being stolen or bought by straw purchase is a reason to loosen restrictions on gun ownership? If anything, it suggests that it is too easy to get one. (off the top of my head, require guns to be stored securely and require any transfer of ownership of guns to have background checks done. That would help to prevent guns being stolen. As for straw purchases, there is a simple solution. If someone does a straw purchase of a gun, then make them legally a conspirator in any crime the actual purchaser commits with the gun.)

[Greenday]

and guns being stolen or bought by straw purchase is a reason to loosen restrictions on gun ownership?

Who is arguing to loosen restrictions on gun ownership? Most people are not.

[Gravekeeper]

Who is arguing to loosen restrictions on gun ownership? Most people are not.

Again, the NRA is in fact arguing for ( and succeeding in ) loosening restrictions on gun ownership and the NRA is the majority voice with more power over US politicians than almost every other group in the country.

Unless you are broadly referring to "most people" as a percentage of literally everyone in the country. In which case your statement is fairly meaningless as an argument as "most people" can be applied to make almost anything sound factual.

[BlaqueKatt]

And you've got crap like this going on. 27 straw purchases(55 federal charges), with false ID and not a single day in jail, he got 5 years probation for buying guns for felons.

He tearfully told the court Wednesday he was "unaware of how serious" his offense was.

Yes because it's not like the form states it's a felony.
Beginning of page 2

[Greenday]

Again, the NRA is in fact arguing for ( and succeeding in ) loosening restrictions on gun ownership and the NRA is the majority voice with more power over US politicians than almost every other group in the country.

Unless you are broadly referring to "most people" as a percentage of literally everyone in the country. In which case your statement is fairly meaningless as an argument as "most people" can be applied to make almost anything sound factual.

Stop bringing up the NRA. They claim to be only 5 million members. When I say most people don't support loosening regulations on guns, saying the NRA is a majority voice is factually incorrect. There are approximately 245 million adults in America. 5 million is maybe 2% which is a small minority.

[Gravekeeper]

Stop bringing up the NRA. They claim to be only 5 million members. When I say most people don't support loosening regulations on guns, saying the NRA is a majority voice is factually incorrect. There are approximately 245 million adults in America. 5 million is maybe 2% which is a small minority.

So you are using it in terms of the entire population of the country. In which case while correct its also a meaningless statement here. When it comes to major political issues in the US, numbers are not power ( sadly ).

I bring up the NRA because they are the single most powerful force behind the rabid pro gun side of things. They are the most powerful special interest group in the country. The most "powerful" anti-gun organization doesn't even remotely come close to the power or money that the NRA wields. They can and do have restrictions on gun ownership loosened by flexing their political muscle.

They literally can't be excluded from any discussion about gun laws because they are the biggest player in that arena by far. Like most groups that are comprised of pre-predominately old white people they wield a disproportionate amount of power in the US political system. -.-

[Gravekeeper]

So he had 14 guns total + body armour and they were all legally purchased by himself or relatives. Also, as is becoming the norm, he's left behind a manifesto.

Sigh.

8 out of the last 10 mass shootings have been with legally purchased firearms. Some within days prior to the shooting and with all them we always find out after the fact that the shooter had a history of mental illness / violence / criminal record, etc.

I mean fuck, the Charleston shooter was able to buy his because of a jurisdiction issue between the cops and the FBI during the background check.

[s_stabeler]

Stop bringing up the NRA. They claim to be only 5 million members. When I say most people don't support loosening regulations on guns, saying the NRA is a majority voice is factually incorrect. There are approximately 245 million adults in America. 5 million is maybe 2% which is a small minority.

and as Gravekeeper said, a very vocal minority.

ultimately, however, it is pretty obvious that the current system doesn't work- as Gravekeeper said, the majority of shootings are done with legally purchased firearms. Therefore, we need to ask if there is any way that the background checks can be made to better predict if someone is going to go off the deep end, while minimising the effect on people who should be allowed to purchase guns. (oh, and if you can better predict who will go off the deep end, then people who would currently be banned can be allowed to own guns if they would be safe owning them- the issue is keeping guns out of the hands of those who would abuse them, not necessarily keeping them out of everyone's hands.)

that, and as I said, start treating straw purchases as the serious crime they actually are- straw purchases are ONLY done to allow someone to purchase guns who otherwise could not, so it should carry a HARSH penalty- I'm thinking a minimum sentence of 5 years in prison, if you are aware they plan to commit a crime with said gun? it depends, but generally, you should receive a far more hefty sentence. ( say, 10-15 years+. Yes, it's harsh, however, you deliberately provided a criminal with a way to kill people in the commission of a crime. There's an argument there for depraved heart murder.)

[Gravekeeper]

that, and as I said, start treating straw purchases as the serious crime they actually are- straw purchases are ONLY done to allow someone to purchase guns who otherwise could not, so it should carry a HARSH penalty

Well, that's the absurd thing. A straw purchase is punishable by up to 10 years in prison under Federal law. But only on weapons purchased from federally regulated gun stores. Straw purchases outside of said regulated stores do not fall under this Federal law.

So the penalty is harsh but the Federal law doesn't apply beyond regulated dealerships.

[Greenday]

Well, that's the absurd thing. A straw purchase is punishable by up to 10 years in prison under Federal law. But only on weapons purchased from federally regulated gun stores. Straw purchases outside of said regulated stores do not fall under this Federal law.

So the penalty is harsh but the Federal law doesn't apply beyond regulated dealerships.

Which means it's totally cool at some gunshow in a hick state.