Terrorists bomb Paris

[Rapscallion]

Also, as I explained to my parents very recently, they want closed borders to stop people leaving their country. The refugees who made it to Yurp are generally speaking the wealthier people. IS isn't completely daft - they need an economy. If they can stop other countries accepting the people from their region, the people stay as there's nowhere else to go.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

Well, this is going to get ugly. All of the attackers identified so far except one have been French citizens. One of who had already been flagged for extremist views and was under surveillance by authorities for years. But yes, it was domestic terrorists.

Meanwhile, the NY police commissioner is already fear mongering and calling for more invasive government surveillance and access to mobile devices, encrypted internet connections, etc. >.>

[Greenday]

Well, this is going to get ugly. All of the attackers identified so far except one have been French citizens.

Do you have a link for that? I saw a few were Belgian.

[Gravekeeper]

Do you have a link for that? I saw a few were Belgian.

They were based out of Belgium. The identified ones so far are:

Omar Ismail Mostefai: French from south of Paris. Died in attack.
Salah Abdeslam: French but was living in Belgium. Currently on the run.
Ibrahim Abdeslam: Salah's brother. French but was living in Belgium.
Brahim Abdeslam: Eldest brother. French but was living in Belgium. Died in attack.
Bilal Hadfi: Was living in Belgium. Nationality unknown. Died in attack.
Ismael Omar Mostefai: Algerian. Was living in France in the same town the brothers were from.

The lot moved shop to Belgium around 2012 it sounds to the same neighbourhood where the attackers from Charlie Hebdo originated.

Aside from them, there are 2 that may have snuck in as refugees.

Its also interesting to note that all 4 suicide bombers actually failed ( they were noticed or got caught by routine security screenings and blew themselves up early ). Causing only 1 casualty total. The majority of casualties were from the mass shootings.

[Canarr]

Also, as I explained to my parents very recently, they want closed borders to stop people leaving their country. The refugees who made it to Yurp are generally speaking the wealthier people. IS isn't completely daft - they need an economy. If they can stop other countries accepting the people from their region, the people stay as there's nowhere else to go.

Rapscallion

Yeah, okay; that is a good point, actually. Ties in nicely with the - possibly forged - Syrian passport conveniently found on one of the terrorists in the concert hall. A passport apparently belonging to a refugee registering in Greece in October.

No way to know whether or not that is the same man, of course, since he blew himself up. But it's certainly fuel for the EU politicians who already warn about the legions of sleepers we are inviting into our countries. That worries me.

[Gravekeeper]

But it's certainly fuel for the EU politicians who already warn about the legions of sleepers we are inviting into our countries. That worries me.

IS has declared the primary target of the attacks were other Muslims they consider apostates. Everyone else was just a bonus. Lets see how much cognitive dissonance arises now.

[s_stabeler]

wow... IS really aren't even trying to looks ave now, are they?

one thing I do like, though, is that Parisians seem determined to go on as usual- while efforts are being taken to reduce the chance of a repeat. That is an extremely good response (terrorists want to make people too scared to do anything but give in- if you carry on as normal, it's ultimately a failure for the terrorists.

[Canarr]

IS has declared the primary target of the attacks were other Muslims they consider apostates. Everyone else was just a bonus. Lets see how much cognitive dissonance arises now.

Do you have a source for that? So far, I've only seen the usual BS - Paris insulted Mohammed, France is bombing IS in Syria, the metal concert was a "perverse party". That one's new to me.

[Gravekeeper]

So the ring leader was Belgian ( and already well known to France ) and another of the bombers at Bataclan actually was charged with terrorism in 2012 and under watch. But authorities somehow lost track of him. One of the other bombers had also been flagged not only as a risk by French authorities but as a terrorist by Turkish authorities. Who say they notified France twice in 2014 and 2015 about the guy but never received a response.

Its looking more and more like some balls were dropped.

Do you have a source for that? So far, I've only seen the usual BS - Paris insulted Mohammed, France is bombing IS in Syria, the metal concert was a "perverse party". That one's new to me.

Yes, the full statement was: "They also targeted the Bataclan Conference Center, where hundreds of apostates had gathered in a profligate prostitution party, and other areas in the 10th and 11th and 18th and in a coordinated fashion."

The west likes to think terrorists are its biggest bogeyman but terrorists target and kill Muslims more than anyone else by far.

[Canarr]

So the ring leader was Belgian ( and already well known to France ) and another of the bombers at Bataclan actually was charged with terrorism in 2012 and under watch. But authorities somehow lost track of him. One of the other bombers had also been flagged not only as a risk by French authorities but as a terrorist by Turkish authorities. Who say they notified France twice in 2014 and 2015 about the guy but never received a response.

Its looking more and more like some balls were dropped.

Agreed.

The LKA (state police) in Bavaria arrested a man on Nov 5th, driving in a car from Montenegro, after discovering TNT, pistols, revolvers, and several AK-47 hidden in his trunk. His navigation system allegedly showed multiple trips to France, and this shipment of weapons may have been destined for Paris. The LKA passed it on to the BKA (federal police) who contacted their French counterparts, but didn't get much enthusiasm.

Of course, that was a week before the attacks. But all in all, this doesn't really make a good argument for more surveillance against terrorism - they did have information beforehand, but it didn't really help them in preventing this tragedy.

Yes, the full statement was: "They also targeted the Bataclan Conference Center, where hundreds of apostates had gathered in a profligate prostitution party, and other areas in the 10th and 11th and 18th and in a coordinated fashion."

The west likes to think terrorists are its biggest bogeyman but terrorists target and kill Muslims more than anyone else by far.

Ah; I missed that. Thanks.

Yes, IS is certainly a lot more dangerous for their own people than they are for any of us. The EU Parliament President Schulz said on TV: It's a tragedy in Paris, but it's every day in Aleppo.

[Canarr]

A few interesting points from Putin, of all people:

https://www.rt.com/news/322305-isis-...-40-countries/

I can understand how he'd be miffed that NATO slaps Russia with an embargo over the Ukraine, but somehow seems unable to prevent IS from selling their oil.

[Gravekeeper]

I can understand how he'd be miffed that NATO slaps Russia with an embargo over the Ukraine, but somehow seems unable to prevent IS from selling their oil.

He's oversimplifying a really complicated situation to be honest. Its embargos on Syria that are creating the demand for the oil to begin with. Its sold through brokers in Syria and over the black market into Turkey. Then onward from there ( its questionable if buyers would even know or be able to trace it back to IS from that point ).

But the major buyer's in the region are, ironically, enemies of IS such as Assad and the Kurds. Who have trouble getting supplies of oil as Syria is already under an oil embargo. The price of crud oil coming out of IS is much cheaper than the international rates ( which seem set arbitrarily for profit >.> )

The US has been striking IS oil operations too. But they can only strike things like makeshift refineries and the like. They can't bomb the wells themselves. Which is the problem. The wells are critical infrastructure and bombing them would hurt the civilian populace far more than IS. Which would just play more into IS's propaganda hands.

[Canarr]

He's oversimplifying a really complicated situation to be honest. Its embargos on Syria that are creating the demand for the oil to begin with. Its sold through brokers in Syria and over the black market into Turkey. Then onward from there ( its questionable if buyers would even know or be able to trace it back to IS from that point ).

But the major buyer's in the region are, ironically, enemies of IS such as Assad and the Kurds. Who have trouble getting supplies of oil as Syria is already under an oil embargo. The price of crud oil coming out of IS is much cheaper than the international rates ( which seem set arbitrarily for profit >.> )

Well, there *are* fairly simple solutions for that: either lift the embargoes, or keep them in place, but match IS' prices in selling oil to Assad's people and the "good" rebels. That should put a dent in their finances.

Still, while he may be oversimplifying this part, I think he's right about something else: an effective fight against IS is hindered as long as the US and their coalition refuse to cooperate with Russia. Okay, I get the conflict of interest: the US want Assad gone, Russia wants him to stay. But surely, that is a secondary issue that could be addressed at a later date?

[s_stabeler]

It sounds more like Russia wants to agree on who the actual terrorists in Syria are- because, let's face it, getting rid of ISIS only for (for example) the Al-Nusra Front to take over is less than helpful.(as for Assad, Russia have said before now they aren't wedded to the idea of him staying. It sounds like to me, Putin more-or-less wants to be sure that Syria isn't a repeat of Libya- which is still unstable following Gaddafi's defeat. (because while it's true that Assad needs to go, it would be less than helpful if he was replaced by terrorists)

[Gravekeeper]

I think he's right about something else: an effective fight against IS is hindered as long as the US and their coalition refuse to cooperate with Russia.

Well, Russia barging into Syria screwed up the UN's diplomatic efforts and made rebel factions leave the negotiation table. Fucking up the US and Turkey's plans in the process. Plus Russia's bombers wandered into Turkey's airspace. Then they bombed the rebels claiming they were IS. So its pretty ballsy for Russia to come to the table now and complain no one wants to fight IS with them.

Between that and Crimea, Putin hasn't exactly demonstrated he can be trusted to do anything except further his own interests.

It sounds more like Russia wants to agree on who the actual terrorists in Syria are- because, let's face it, getting rid of ISIS only for (for example) the Al-Nusra Front to take over is less than helpful.(as for Assad, Russia have said before now they aren't wedded to the idea of him staying.

Russia wants Assad as part of the coalition and entered the war in Syria on Assad's request for aid against the rebel factions. They also sell a ton of weapons to Assad ( 10% of their global sales even ) and have a key naval base in Syria. They've also used their position on the UN to veto sanctions and military action against Assad. Their interest in Assad staying is both strategic and economic. Regardless of what they say in front of the cameras.

Before Russia started bombing the UN had 41 different factions together at the table with them for negotiations. Then Russia bombed some of them ( and hit a civilian target in the process ) and they bailed. Specifically citing Russia's involvement and attacks as the reason that there was no longer any political solution going forward.

There's no disagreement over Al-Nusra though. The US and the UN designated them a terrorist group before Russia did.