"Oh well then you're not poor"

[jackfaire]

There are apparently certain activities that people have decided if you're capable of doing then clearly you aren't really poor.

I recently commented on a YouTube video that was about "First World Problems" but was really about problems that even Middle Class people would be too poor to have that it was kind of offensive that there are people in other countries seeing these and thinking "Oh so everyone in America has these kinds of problems" No I can't afford enough to even wish I had those kinds of problems.

I pointed out that people like me who barely scrape by the Working Poor. We make enough money to keep working, we make enough to get to the library to check out books. A fellow Commenter (sp?) decided that since I either had a tablet, computer, or smart phone that I was using to watch YouTube that clearly I wasn't poor.

1) The internet is a requirement for applying to the offices that I work in as an entry level employee whom they refuse to ever promote from a shitty paying job because I lack a college degree.

2) A cheap computer can run for less than 200 dollars.

3) YouTube is a free service supported by advertising allowing me some form of entertainment and to find out about shows and entertainment I can't afford. Like television.

4) My particular computer was given to me by a friend who worked at the dump because all that was wrong with it was a busted monitor. Someone with more money than sense threw it out without bothering to replace the monitor. Also made his user name the password so like seriously yeah. No sense.

Anyway I get that I am not starving to death in a third world country. But I can't afford to go to a dive bar. Wendy's is a once every few months treat for me when I can save up the money. Honestly it's a damn good thing I love to read because the library comes out of my taxes so my membership fee there is covered.

There is a scale to these things. I used to live in a different city. I moved here to stay with family and try to get back on my feet after some set backs. In that city there was a magazine that I got a subscription to. Month after month it was activities, places and things to do that were well out of my price range.

The only event they ever talked about that I could afford was a burger and beer tasting the burgers were from all of the restaurants in the city that I normally couldn't afford to eat at. It was kind of depressing listening to people gush about "Oh man so going to try this place later" and me thinking "This is it this is when I get to eat at those places"

I have learned to accept certain things and to be okay with them. I am 35 turning 36 and divorced since I was 22 last relationship was when I was 25. I understand that at my socio-economic level it's unlikely I will be able to get married again and have any children. I am a ghost. I look just well off enough that people don't think twice about me. But am poor enough I slip through every single crack.

I think if I existed in a Pre-Internet age I would be going nuts watching Paint Dry. Sorry no one needs to comment on this if they don't want to it's stupid it just pissed me off being told I am not poor like that somehow magically makes it so I can afford shit. It makes me aware how invisible I really am.

It reminds me of the "endurance of man" I once broke down and left my female friend in the air conditioned car while I walked 5 miles for help. I came back to the car exhausted. I got the car running enough to get us closer to the friend's house we had been heading to who lived on the outskirts of town. We were less than a mile away. I was visibly exhuasted as me and her were walking up the long private road that lead to the McMansions one of which belonged to our friend another group of our friends stopped and gave my female friend a ride the rest of the way because "well she's a woman" No one came back for me and I finished the walk myself. We were then there until 1 AM hanging out and partying. I passed out from exhaustion. No one woke me until after everyone whom had driven there left. My "friend" kicked me out the front door and at 1 AM I had to walk back to my house I collapsed on my front lawn at 8AM.

My point is that people have these ideas in their head "You're a man, you have a computer" etc that automatically dismisses any problems I have. It's frustrating.

"Oh you can't really be sad men don't get sad" "Oh no you don't need rental assistance because you're a man and men can work" "You have a computer you can't possibly be poor because I paid a lot for my computer so you must have as well"

Anyway going to end my rant there.

[Aragarthiel]

A fellow Commenter (sp?) decided that since I either had a tablet, computer, or smart phone that I was using to watch YouTube that clearly I wasn't poor.

I love it when people try to argue that with me. It usually involves some sort of "Why don't you go to college and be a productive member of society?" argument.

Then I point out that I AM in college, and the degree I'm going for (web design) is 90% online, most of the classes I have to take don't even have an on-campus counterpart. Believe me, I would LOVE to be able to take more on-campus classes, I thrive in a classroom, but I don't have the option.

[Racket_Man]

I love it when people try to argue that with me. It usually involves some sort of "Why don't you go to college and be a productive member of society?" argument.

That sounds WWWWAAAAAAYYYYY tooooo much like "GET A REAL JOB YOU low life uneducated, stoned, lazy MORON"

Hey I did go to college and worked at several of those "real jobs" for like 15 years. Decent money decent jobs BUT I got REAL tired of the Office Politics, the backstabbing, the bad fucked corp. logic, the total waste of resource $$$$'s AND being the expendable employee.

I voluntarily went back into food/retail, got divorced, met my GF, socked away $$$$'s like mad over the last 11 years (because Ex was not there to spend it all) and if you have read my recent post over on CS in the Off Topic section YES I am able to buy a house. BUT the circumstances were just right and all of the stars had to align properly and just right.

I live humbly and simply with little extravagance, drive a 16 year old car, I finally upgraded my phone to a smartphone just recently, do not (like some of my customers) spend massive amounts of money on take out and junk food) , and my electronic stuff is at least 4 or 5 years old.

I am definitely NOT by any means well off or wealthy I have what I have and I have worked VERY hard to get what I have.

[s_stabeler]

re: the real job comments. IMHO, even if you consider a MW job as "not a real job" then considering that something like 80% of MW workers are, in fact, trying to support themselves on that job (or multiple MW jobs) then MW should be high enough for someone to at least scrape by on. ( I know it has been brought up that companies should be encouraged to offer people more hours, but that doesn't actually help. I worked it out once, and on MW, the average person would literally have to eat, sleep and go to work to be able to get by, and even then, that includes missing an hour's sleep each night.)

but yeah, while there IS a level where it is legitimate to hoot in derision ( I'm thinking of a rich person saying that needing to lay off their live-in dog walker or something like that is equivalent to a poor person needing to decide which bill to pay this month. It might be motivated by similar issues- needing to balance the books- but it's not precisely the same thing) it's not really your place to judge if someone is poor. ( the way I see it, someone is poor if their non-discretionary expenses take up almost all their income. So, for example, the OP, where going to a fast food restaurant is a treat, is objectively poor, no matter that they have internet access.

On the other hand, I always interpreted "First World Problems" as "Problems that could only occur in the First World" not " problems everyone in the First World has" so the commentators are idiots.

[Ghel]

My STBEH has tried to pull this shit on me. Last year, I went to the Renaissance Festival, and he claimed I must not be poor if I could afford to go. Never mind that my brother let me crash at his place, paid my ticket, and paid for most of my food. All I paid for was a tank of gas to get there, about $40. (I've actually been stressing out about hearing the same thing from him this year, if he finds out I'm going again.)

He also told me I should do without internet and phone if I can't afford them. It's my only connection to the outside world, considering I have very few friends locally. I guess I shouldn't have anything nice, either. Just live with hand-me-down phones, threadbare clothes, and never go out to eat.

I would love to be able to save up money for nice things (or down payment on a house once the divorce is done), but I keep having to take money out of savings just to pay my bills. If it wasn't for my annual bonus, I wouldn't even have that little bit of savings.

I can't stand how he's tried to shame me for not being "poor enough." Nobody should have to deal with that shit.

[SkullKing]

A lot of people seem to think that as soon as you are a bit poor you should discard everything that costs even a little and live like a caveman to save money

Never mind that in actual term it would worsen the situation. It is very hard to job hunt wittout internet, for example.

@Ghel, is your STBEH is STBEH still? I though by this time he would be EH. How you holding up?

[s_stabeler]

it sounds like her STBEH ( and I suspect that stands for STupid Bastard Ex Husband, so the acronym won't change) is using the classic asshole tactic of trying to spin out the divorce as long as possible to make it cost Ghel as much as possible.

Hang in there, though, Ghel, and remember that your STBEH is, in fact, wrong that you should be left in penuary to escape the marriage. ( I can't say I am surprised, though, since I got the impression he always saw Ghel as property- and, by that warped logic, why should property need more than the bare minimum? ( it also explains why STBEH has been resisting giving Ghel her fair share of the marital assets- if Ghel is property, then arguably all the assets are actually STBEH's, like my pet cats' food bowls are actually owned by my parents.))

[Ghel]

Yeah, the divorce has barely started. The first hearing got pushed back to Sept. 20th. I've been debating putting an update on that thread with some of the crap he's been trying to pull. It's not much of an update, but I'll post something there now (so I don't derail this thread too much).

[Rageaholic]

1) The internet is a requirement for applying to the offices that I work in as an entry level employee whom they refuse to ever promote from a shitty paying job because I lack a college degree.

This is one of many reasons why anyone who believes in the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mantra can STFU. There are so many things that are a requirement for jobs that you can't afford to go without them.

That also reminds me of a story on CS where someone was living in their car with hardly any money. They were willing to sell everything but the laptop (and presumably the car) and still had commenters telling them that they should sell the laptop. As if it was unreasonable to want to keep one thing as your own.

[s_stabeler]

depends. I would- generally- consider them stupid if they were risking starvation to keep the laptop, considering there are places to get free internet access, but as an alternative to getting help? no.

[jackfaire]

depends. I would- generally- consider them stupid if they were risking starvation to keep the laptop, considering there are places to get free internet access, but as an alternative to getting help? no.

Actually selling the laptop would be the risking starvation. Even the fast food places in my town no longer accept in person applications and if you apply and can't be reached they don't wait they just cross you off the list and move on.

Places with "free" internet typically have time limits unless you bring your own computer. That laptop is more likely to get the person a job and get them back on their feet than selling it for a meal.

I am between jobs because my ID expired and I can't take a job if I can't fill out paperwork but I found out my state provides a voucher for a discount on getting a new ID so as to make it so I can afford one and get my ass back to work.

I was for awhile working at a company that would rehire and lay me off each year so I spent my summers on unemployment, most contracts were either too short or too long to cover the whole summer. One summer they had another job open up and emailed me. My phone had been shut off and in the 20 minutes it took to reach the convenience store pay phone they had already given the job to someone else.

On top of that I had my license suspended 10 years ago for a ticket that I can't afford to pay because it's over a 1000 dollars. So I can't take jobs where driving is a thing. I also owe on student loans from before I entered the Army when I dropped out of school to raise my kid.

I only owe about 2 grand on my student loans and every year that I work I lose my entire tax return to paying off the interest. I am not eligible for more student loans until I pay it off in full then I can file to go back to school.

I am aware that this is all predicated on mistakes I made when I was in my early 20s but the system is designed to basically punish me for daring to be a stupid kid. I have some hope though because I temporarily got a job paying enough money that I was able to put up enough income to satisfy a company took out a personal loan and moved my folks to a smaller city where the cost of living is a lot lower so they can survive without me working while I look for work. I am helping them continuously lower their own expenses and once I am back to work yeah sure it means still living with my folks but it means three incomes and I will finally have a shot at some of the cool things in life. Maybe a vacation. Finally.

[s_stabeler]

I was talking about starvation in the sense of starving to death- that is, if someone would rather starve to death than sell the laptop. That, and the "can't be reached" problem would be solved via a cell phone, not a laptop.

again though, I actually agree you shouldn't need to sell the laptop before being able to get help- it's just that I don't think it's a good idea to have a " I won't sell the laptop under any circumstances" policy.

[jackfaire]

I was talking about starvation in the sense of starving to death-

I know but while in theory that sounds like a brilliant idea selling the laptop only gets you one maybe two meals. This doesn't solve your starving to death problem only prolongs it by a few days.

That was the point I was trying to make it's the modern day equivalent of "You're starving to death Bobby so why don't you trade me your fishing pole for this fish."

Bobby now starves to death Friday instead of Monday. Whereas in the real world if things are getting that dire he can reach out with the laptop to millions of people and resources that may help him. Without that laptop he got one nice last meal before he dies and that's it.

It always sounds good in theory to give away something to solve a short term problem and like you said we get pissed when "but why aren't you willing to part with "luxury item" for survival" The thing is though computers stopped being a luxury item sometime in the last decade.

You're right a cell phone is important for contact as well. However you can't apply for jobs with a phone. Most jobs even the lowest end fast food jobs don't accept walk in applications anymore. This on top of the fact that while the laptop you have can be paid for free and clear you have to keep paying to use a cell phone.

If you are in such dire straits that you would contemplate selling the one resource giving you a shot at survival to eat then you sure as hell don't have the money to maintain a cell phone. Whereas if you can use your laptop to connect to free internet you can use your laptop to make free phone calls to anyone domestically.

Google has a phone call function where if for some reason I don't have a phone I can still use the internet to call anyone in the continental United States and it won't cost me a dime. People underestimate the sheer usefulness of a laptop computer. If you wind up homeless that's the one thing you should never ever get rid of even if you're starving to death.

Unless you've given up hope and just want one last good meal before you go.

PS. Also that laptop computer when living in poverty or working poor can make the difference between developing an addiction or not. When you're choices are use WiFi Hot Spots to enjoy free entertainment or drugs you will most likely choose the former. But if your choices are drugs or watch paint dry well it's kind of a no brainer.

I have had times when I wasn't starving to death but I had to decide whether I paid for my internet or my phone. My internet won everytime. And it was the right call I got jobs got back on my feet and got a phone back.

Keeping the phone instead would have meant starvation and homelessness as phones are very simple things that don't do us much good when it comes to getting things done.

[Food Lady]

I have never understood the thought that phones aren't necessary. They might have a point in saying that a cell phone and a landline at the same time is a bit excessive, but no phone at all? The last time I had to call myself an ambulance I definitely felt phone service was absolutely necessary! I guess internet is debatable but if one doesn't have a car then it is a necessity. When I was car-free I couldn't carry certain items due to medical issues and so had to order them online. The internet is definitely necessary for job hunting in this day and age. And aside from all the debate about possessions, poverty is defined by numbers, period. There is a poverty threshold and there is a way to calculate it. Also there is a difference between being destitute, poor, and broke. Destitute is not being able to afford the basics of life on a consistent basis. Poor is barely making enough money to be able to afford those and sometimes being in want. Broke is having trouble affording much more than necessities because of other unusual obligations like old debts or supporting someone who should be supporting himself or being taxed heavily, things like that. I think these people debating with you are confusing destitute and poor.

[jackfaire]

I guess internet is debatable but if one doesn't have a car then it is a necessity.

Nope. In fact in today's economy internet is always a necessity while a car is not.

(Allow for differences in other parts of the world)

The job I currently have at a restaurant cannot be applied to in person. You could drive there in your car walk in find a manager ask them about a job and they will say, "Sorry you need to apply online here's the link"

This is not the exception. Most businesses in my area operate this way. The ones where you can walk in to apply are the exception.

I don't have a car. I got the job I have via having internet and I get to go to work every day and home not having a car.

I say this varies not based on the internet part but rather based on the car part. Some places a car is equally vital. But I have yet to find a community where the internet wasn't most companies preferred method for filtering applicants.