Unfairness in Marriage

[Boozy]

He has no possible way to prevent her from getting an abortion or giving it up for adoption. He is effectively screwed.

He cannot prevent her from getting an abortion, but he can absolutely prevent her from giving the baby up for adoption. Adoptions are not legal if there is a father in the picture and he refuses to waive his rights to the child.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

To bring everyone up to speed, we aren't talking about a monkey. The OP is trying to get us all to agree that since his wife is the one who had the baby, then he shouldn't have to be responsible for it.

Did I understand that right, DrFaroohk?

DrFaroohk evidently does not understand that babies happen when two people have unprotected sex. He's going to now explain that his wife didn't botther to take her birth control. Maybe she did and maybe she didn't, but since birth control is not 100% effective, and since it was that important that he not have a child, maybe he should have taken a little personal responsibility over it as well and not relied on a woman who has a history of disregarding his wishes to make that decision.

Sir, the situation is that you are in it now. It's not your child's fault her daddy does not want her, and that right there alone makes me want to cry. That's bad enough without you comparing her to a screaming, shitting monkey.

Way to go, Daddy. Nice.

[DrFaroohk]

Maybe mommy should have considered those things before going off her birth control. Maybe mommy should have thought of those things before agreeing, falsely, that abortion was a good idea.

Why didn't I wear a condom? Because condoms suck, and I had assurances that they were not needed, assurances based upon the fact that she was on birth control, which is like 99.999999999% effective, and the backup plan of abortion, which is 100% effective.

I never said I didn't want her, anyway. I just wonder why I'm the one always getting up at midnight, at 2, at 3:30, at 5, at 6, etc....

And I do understand that babies come from sex. But what many people seem to miss is that humans ALSO have sex for PLEASURE. P L E A S U R E. Babies has nothing to do with it.

[Slytovhand]

To bring everyone up to speed, we aren't talking about a monkey.

Well, actually, we are.

I'm a monkey!

Well, sort of.

My father didn't particularly want to have another child. Finances weren't great, they already had 2 other kids, and his hopes and dreams for his life were already pretty much down the crapper, another kid (and another couple of decades of day in day out slog to get anywhere) just wasn't his cup of tea!


Thus, I grew up living with my father's (repressed) resentment... not just of my existence, but of how his entire life ended up.

Do NOT do that to your child!

Do NOT blame the child, your son, for the actions of the mother - even if you do consider them immoral or unfair!

You're feeling jilted, and jaded, and angry and hurt at being thrown this curve-ball that you think you don't deserve... do you really want your son to feel the same way? At least you understand why... he won't!

[DrFaroohk]

Jesus, what kind of sick bastard do you all think I am? My god. I guess I'd better get a few more beatings in before you all figure me out!

I take care of my child. I love her, I feed her, i change her, I bathe her, take her to the doctor, play with her, nurture her, everything. I do all that stuff. Probably more so than most of the fathers you'd look up to. I do all the stuff I'm supposed to do.

I'm just not 100% thrilled about it all the time. I don't see it as particularly rewarding or fulfilling. It's just something that I'm stuck doing. I can either be a jerk about it to my family, or I can just vent my frustrations here. I'd much rather do it here.

[AdminAssistant]

the man no longer has ANY say whatsoever. None. Zilch. Nada. He can't force the woman to not have the kid or give it up for adoption. Let's say he wants to keep the kid, but the woman does not. He has no possible way to prevent her from getting an abortion or giving it up for adoption. He is effectively screwed.

...I'm starting a separate thread on this.

Dr. Farhook. Yeah, condoms suck. So does taking tiny amounts of estrogen every fucking day of your life. You had unprotected sex because you wanted more awesome sex that would last what...10 minutes? 30? And now this is the result. Now YOU have to deal with the consequences of YOUR actions.

Women actually sometimes have very little say in the matter. You're in the moment, and you've got a 250 lb man on top of you. You tell him to put on a condom and he says, "No, I don't want to" What are you going to do? You can try to fight him off, sure. Or, "You're on birth control, I don't have to wear a condom" "It won't feel as good" Or the incessant whining about it if he does wear one.

And do NOT take it out on the child. She(?) is the truly innocent one in the picture. Be mad at your wife. Divorce your wife. But comparing your baby to a monkey is disgusting.

[Slytovhand]

DrF... I did say my father had repressed resentment.

Kids notice things - no matter how much you think your not doing anything, or acting a certain way. They will somehow know that something isn't right... and they can pick that up from before day 1.

I didn't say my father was a 'sick bastard' - just unhappy with his life, and resenting the position he was forced to endure.... (the second bit certainly sounds like you - obviously, I can't comment on the first bit!)

(btw - I get your trying to draw an analogy... analogies are a different kettle of fish to comparisons...!)

Might still be worth 'being a jerk about it to your family' - aka communicating with them. After all, if family isn't aware of how you feel, such things might just happen again.

[DrFaroohk]

Why is it that people just look the other way on the woman's actions? I've brought it up like 3 times in this thread and people give a barely acknowledging nod or just blow off the fact that I was misled on the whole matter. I just want one person to acknowledge the fact that yeah, I got a shitty deal.

You want me to take responsibility for my actions? These are my actions: I had unprotected sex with a woman who assured me was on birth control. I had unprotected sex with a woman who assured me that if she did get pregnant, she'd get an abortion.

Those are my actions.

Why doesn't anyone ever give a shit about the woman's actions? These are HER actions: She had unprotected sex with a man with who she misled about her birth control. She had unprotected sex with a man who she falsely impressed upon her belief in abortion.

Man, this sucks. I love my wife, I'm really crazy about her...except on this one issue. Why did this have to come along and screw everything up???

Oh wait, it's all MY fault isn't it. I did everything wrong here! She couldn't help it and take responsibility for her actions. Of course it's all MY FAULT. I'm the ONLY ONE responsible for birth control. Shit, I forgot that!

[Slytovhand]

In this one instance (cos we're talking specific, not generalities), what does it matter?

What are you trying to get out of this? Cos, I believe you've indicated that you're not willing to bring it up with her (or, at least, are reluctant to).

While I empathise with your situation, to me, there's a far more over-whelming priority than being hung up on a lie... a priority which isn't going to just up and go away (although, I will point out, that it is an option that you have (and no, pls, let's not get into a moral debate over that... I'm just throwing stuff up into the air...).

I had an ex do something (ballpark) vaguely similar. She wanted a cat. I said no. (way too used to having cats around me growing up - I know that effort and responsibility is required, and I don't wish to invest in that). She went ahead and got a kitten. And later, wanted to go away for a couple of weeks and leave said kitten with me to look after... HA! (yes, dear - that's why I didn't want a kitten in the house!) It was probably the straw that broke us (not that it should ever have gotten that serious.. by mutual agreement, btw). Our relationship ended, and I moved out.

Kittens are simple. Kids aren't. I can easily walk away - there's no investment involved for me. There is for you.

I'm not agreeing with what she did, but I will say... stuff happens and there are repercussions... that's what living is all about!

So - now what?

(thus, we 'give a shit', but also wonder.."... and?")

Quick question though... let's just say (hypothetically here), if she had've had an affair (obviously lying about it), and you found out... what would you do? Why? Well, she's lied to you once... would you take her back, knowing she's willing to lie to get what she wants?

(and that, I think might be the crux of the issue here... yes?)

[linguist]

i don't recall seeing it mentioned (and forgive me if it has been), but from what you've said here, you haven't talked to her and gotten her side of things.

has she told you explicitly that she went off birth control with the sole purpose of getting pregnant? if so, that was a shitty thing to do (as others have said, so they aren't looking the other way on her actions). hormonal birth control, while highly effective, does fail. if not having children was such an issue, birth control should have been used on both sides, regardless of what she said. even with both partners using birth control, though, pregnancy is still a possibility.

as for her belief in abortion, has she explicitly told you that if she got pregnant she never intended to get an abortion? she could very easily have intended to and been unable to go through with it. being okay with something in theory and then being faced with the reality of the situation are two entirely separate things. in theory, i always thought sky diving would be huge fun. when faced with the reality, i couldn't jump out of the plane. so it goes with many women who plan on getting abortions and then when faced with the prospect (sometimes going so far as to actually go to the clinic) can't actually do it. she wouldn't be the first, and she won't be the last. is she not allowed to change her mind?

all i'm saying is, you act as if she's lied to you all along, but from all i've seen, you haven't actually talked to her to get her side of things. if not, you should, as it may change your attitude. if so, and she has lied to you, she's not worth sticking with. either way, what's done is done and complaining about it won't change the past. actually talking with your wife, though, may change the future.

[AFPheonix]

Jesus, what kind of sick bastard do you all think I am? My god. I guess I'd better get a few more beatings in before you all figure me out!

I take care of my child. I love her, I feed her, i change her, I bathe her, take her to the doctor, play with her, nurture her, everything. I do all that stuff. Probably more so than most of the fathers you'd look up to. I do all the stuff I'm supposed to do.

I'm just not 100% thrilled about it all the time. I don't see it as particularly rewarding or fulfilling. It's just something that I'm stuck doing. I can either be a jerk about it to my family, or I can just vent my frustrations here. I'd much rather do it here.

Don't get your panties in a wad, all we have to go on are your threads that you start and the comments you make. You were the one that compared your kid to a monkey in a crappy analogy. If you don't want constructive criticism, then don't post.
That being said, having read the stuff you post, you and your wife seriously need to go to marriage counselling.
Both of you sound profoundly immature and that's no way to bring up a baby.

[DrFaroohk]

Well, according to her, she "forgot" to go get it.

I rank that right up there with the story women tell about having a fight with their mother. "Oh Robbie, I had a fight with my mom, can I sleep over?" Yeah, BS.

As for the abortion thing...yeah, probably that's what happened. She meant to, wanted to, couldn't go through with it.

Do we need counseling? I dunno. Probably. I know I do anyway.

We actually have a really good relationship. Everything is wonderful! Except for the new baby. Daddy does most of the stuff with the new baby and daddy doesn't like it. Daddy wonders why he's up ever two hours, never getting a good nights sleep. Everything aside from that is great. We just disagreed on the kid thing, she got what she wanted, hurray for her. Meanwhile I am trapped and suffocating here because I never get any peace.

I don't see how my monkey analogy was so off the mark. Break it down to the essentials: One partner deceived the other, went against their wishes and brought a great inconvenience to the relationship. When it was the man doing it, oh he's such an evil bastard, but the woman apparently has all rights in that department.

Ah well, life is as it is. I shouldn't be surprised.

[Greenday]

I think people just didn't like the idea of you comparing a baby to a monkey. Some people are just like that. I personally do not find anything special about babies. Alls they do is eat, sleep, and crap. Thus I understand the monkey/baby analogy.

[Boozy]

Why is it that people just look the other way on the woman's actions? I've brought it up like 3 times in this thread and people give a barely acknowledging nod or just blow off the fact that I was misled on the whole matter. I just want one person to acknowledge the fact that yeah, I got a shitty deal.

We're not all going to jump onto a "Let's all tear into Faroohk's wife" bandwagon. That's not fair, since she's not here to defend herself. That's why the responses have focussed on you and the part of the situation that you can control. You're the one posting, so you're the one people have been addressing.

Whatever the original intent, this thread has clearly turned into a discussion about your personal life and relationship issues. We're in a situation now where we can't discuss the issue at large (women's vs. men's reproductive rights) without getting too close to personal attacks. It's fine to share personal experiences, but an entire debate centred around one member's family and personal decisions is too much of a minefield.

If anyone here would like to continue the discussion about this issue in broader terms, please start another thread. It's a meaty topic that would be welcome here. I'm going to close this thread before real offense is given or taken.