Objectifying women/women allowing themselves to be objectified

[DesignFox]

I'm not really sure if this should be in "Things I Hate" or "Social Woes"...but since it addresses a concept that I dislike, I'm gonna go with sticking it here...

Blas was talking about her bikini contest, and Anriana brought up the point that it is not something she would comment on.

So, that brings up my new topic.

How do you all feel about beauty contests? What about magazine spreads like in Playboy and Maxim? Strip clubs? or restaurants like Hooters?

Where is the line between a woman being strong, beautiful and expressing her physical appearance in a positive manner- and being/allowing herself to be objectified?

I'm at work right now and I'm having trouble expressing how I feel on the subject. I thought I'd get the discussion started for now, though, since it was on my brain.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'm not really bothered by them if the people competing are all legal adults; it's the ones for little girls that I find disturbing. O.o

I don't really see the point in attacking a woman for being paid to strip off; if that's what she wants to do, then fine; any guy who paints all women as slags cuz of reading dirty magazines is a dickhead and will eventually learn that the painful way.

[Dreamstalker]

The only aspect that scares me is the child beauty pageants O_o (the obsessive moms freak me the hell out) The kids are too young to know what they're getting into in most cases (it also seems to me that would be a pedophile magnet).

I don't have an issue with consenting adults doing it if that's what they want and they know what they're getting into.

I do think the "Miss California/whatever" pageants are a bit strange, but that's just me. What I'd love to see is an all-geek beauty contest.

[DesignFox]

<snip> it's the ones for little girls that I find disturbing. O.o

<snip>

Oh jeez, we could start another thread on that alone! I watched some show on VH1 about that...creeeeeeepy. Fake teeth, spray tans, make-up and hair extensions for 6 year olds? Um...weeeeeird.

I have lots of opinions on this topic. I'm having trouble putting most of it into words.

Basically, I don't care what people do. I just don't want it shoved in my face. And I really despise women who cry about being objectified or ogled when they- well- put themselves in a position to BE ogled.

I think that a tasteful, sexy promo girl is no big deal. I think both genders can agree that we all enjoy some good eye candy.

But things like the new GoDaddy commercial irritate me to the core. There's nothing classy about ripping your clothes off and throwing yourself at a random woman in an effort to get men to buy a product. (and really, do we all think that THAT is all that will get a man's attention? 'Cause I know plenty of guys who find that insulting, too)

Axe deodorant body spray commercials? Piss me off to no end. Women are not slavering, sex crazed animals that will a hump a shower rod because they smell your deodorant.

Strip clubs? Meh. Do what you will while you're single, but if you do THAT shit while I'm dating you, expect a restless night on the couch. To me, going out to watch other women dance around naked is a slap in the face- like, I'm not good enough so you've gotta get your jollies elsewhere.

Porn? To each their own. I won't watch it. I won't stop you from doing whatever it is you want with your spare time. Just don't include me- don't tell me about it- don't let me see it.

I hope some of that makes sense....

To me, it's a very fine line. Most things don't bother me. But there's a few that do...Maybe as more people jump in with opinions I'll be able to clarify a little better...

[powerboy]

There is nothing wrong with it, if that is what they want to do.

[Greenday]

I don't have a problem with women showing off their body if that's what they want. That's their right.

I DO have a problem with women who dress all slutty so guys will objectify them THEN complain about being objectified. If you dress wearing practically no clothes, people WILL stare. Deal with it if you want to show off skin.

[Rapscallion]

Basically, I don't care what people do. I just don't want it shoved in my face. And I really despise women who cry about being objectified or ogled when they- well- put themselves in a position to BE ogled.

Oh, you hit the nail on the head for me there. I've seen (usually young) girls go out with the intention of turning blue from hypothermia and then complain that men have been eyeing them. I think what they're really complaining about is that the men they're trying to attract isn't the one looking.

I heard a 'fashion expert' on the radio the other day gushing about mini skirts or some other revealing female fashion being newly in vogue (again). "It gives the girls something to show off and the boys something to look at." It's a very pervasive attitude.

What gets me is that so many women go along with it. Are we an inverse of the peacock species? How many women can't go out without some sort of make-up or worrying about the clothes they're wearing? I suspect some of this applies to men as well (mostly metrosexuals), but since I'm nominally hetersexual I don't really notice the blokes. Most chaps I know tend to the 'It fits and doesn't smell too bad, so I'll wear it' camp (a slight exaggeration, but a funny one).

Is this an instinct built into our species that the fashionistas are pandering to, or do we act this way because they've told us to?

Rapscallion

[Cats]

I don't really buy into the whole "gender roles" crap. When can people just be people? To me, gender has little meaning other than who has a penis and who has a vagina.

If a woman is comfortable with "objectifying" herself, be it for attention or just to get a paycheck, and doesn't whine about it, hey, whatever floats your boat. I personally don't like it, but it's their choice. They're not hurting anyone in doing so.


I used to be a chick who didn't give a rats ass on how I looked, so long as I was presentable. Now, I wear contacts, makeup, and have a funky style sense. But I didn't do it for attention (though I won't lie, it is a bonus), I did it because I wanted to do it. If I feel I look good, it makes me feel a little better on the inside. And heck, rules of society require us to wear clothing anyway, so I figure, why not have some fun with it?

While I don't think it's going to change anytime soon, woman only "allow" themselves to be objectified so much as the people who are objectifying them do so. ie, A woman who dresses like a skank for the attention is just as much at fault as the people who give said attention because she looks like a skank.

[BlaqueKatt]

What gets me is that so many women go along with it. Are we an inverse of the peacock species? How many women can't go out without some sort of make-up or worrying about the clothes they're wearing? <snip>
Is this an instinct built into our species that the fashionistas are pandering to, or do we act this way because they've told us to?

Personally I think it's due to the whole "media image pushers"-meaning vogue, style, cosmo with their airbrushed, silicone-enhanced, overly made up human barbie dolls.

YMMV-but my experience has mostly been the women that refuse to leave the house without makeup seem to have horribly low self esteem(the ones that can be a size 2 and complain about being fat, "I'm so hideous" blah blah blah). And from personal experience the shallowness they outwardly reflect is what comes back to them.

One girl I work with "J" refuses to go anywhere without makeup caked on(she has horrible skin under the makeup and doesn't understand that makeup is causing it so piles on more), complains about being "OMG -sooooo fat" at 140#(she's a healthy weight for her height of 5'10"), and "I look like a man" etc. She has no friends to speak of, she drives them away with her whining.
(my boss kinda sighs and says-about 5 years her looks will fade, you Katt will still be beautiful and turning heads, because you're real, and a rare gem in this world)

On the other hand "M" has never worn makeup, is pretty much a hippie, never says anything negative about anyone, but has tons of friends.


Wearing makeup daily is horrible for your skin, and forces you to think you need more from what it does to you(acne, wrinkles), I'm 33 my SIL is 22 and one of the "makeup cakers"-anyone that sees us together thinks I'm younger by about a decade, she can't fighure out why(um I have clear skin and no wrinkles, you have tons of both and they're visable through the makeup you trowel on.)

Want proof of what makeup does to our skin-look at recent pics of jennifer love-hewitt, or pamala anderson(without makeup)


(FYI-I wear makeup maybe 3 times a year, heck I don't even shave my legs-my self-esteem is high enough that I do have friends, and people want to hang out with me-I'm not "high-maintenance"

[blas87]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on the makeup, Katt. I've worn makeup nearly every day since my mom first started allowing me to, and even though I'm still young, it's been going on for over 10 years.....and I see lots of girls my age whose skin is in much worse shape than mine.

If you wear makeup, you have to pick the right kinds. Don't buy makeup with oils and talc in it, I'd advise completely against liquid foundation altogether.....and of course, you HAVE to take it off and not sleep in it. You also have to have a regimen of sorts where at the beginning of the day, you prepare your skin, and at night, you repair it.

My doctor told me that it's not makeup that gives me zits...it's my overactive sebum, which when you have extremely oily skin, it never stays clean very long. Some makeups certainly have irritated my skin and made acne worse....but I had to go shopping for the right kind. Also, all those ingredients you find in skin care.....alcohol may good for killing bacteria, but it dries the heck out of your skin and dry skin = older looking skin. I guess I should just be thankful that people with oily skin keep their skin looking younger longer.

Not to mention, even though makeup doesn't have an expiration date printed on it, it does have a shelf life of so long. It's not smart to keep the same makeup around for too long and continue to wear it. I give mineral makeup about a year, liquid makeup about 6 months, and don't forget, skin care also has a shelf life as well.

Lately, I've been using more natural tactics to clean and primp. I've been making masks out of kitty litter for my face, using lemons in my water to wash with and use as an astringent, and also used fruits like bananas and apples and grapes to moisturize and cleanse.

Back more on topic...I'm a self proclaimed girly girl and I love makeup. Normally, you won't see me wearing the whole kit and kaboodle, but every night for work, I always wear some cover up and mascara so that I look awake and fresh. On my days off, I wear more makeup and do my hair all nice and wear my nicer clothes, because it's a nice break from having to go all week wearing jeans and a tshirt, air dryed hair, and minimal makeup.

Don't get me wrong. I don't wear makeup because I think I'm ugly, and I go plenty of places without it. The second I get home from work in the morning, I wash it right off and then go about and run my errands. Since my skin is so oily, I put makeup on JUST before I'm ready to leave, and I take it off as soon as I'm done with my day. I never sleep in it.

[fireheart17]

I'm a bit half and half on this one.

I agree with the point of the peacock concept...how a woman can't supposedly go out without having to wear makeup or dress skankily (so to speak).

On the other hand, there are ways to look pretty without suffering from hypothermia and I tend to take advantage of those. Of course, there are times when I go out, covered up completely, wearing no makeup and I STILL get ogled at by men....o.O

Child beauty contests....yeah, definitely creepy. Also somewhat stereotypical...do you see/hear young boys being involved?
Adult beauty contests...somewhat stereotypical, however the humanitarian work that some contestants do is at least a bonus.

[pile of monkeys]

I think if you knowingly and willingly put yourself in a situation where you will be ogled and objectified, you waive your right to complain about being ogled and objectified. I do, however, draw the line at being touched, groped, or harassed. Say Susie gets all tarted up to go to the dance club- she's got her ultra low rise jeans, her teeny tiny top, spike heels, and is shaking it on the dance floor like a chick in a rap video. I'm sorry, but Susie, who for this example is an intelligent woman, is going to get stared at. She might get hit on by guys. She might overhear people making remarks about her body, her outfit, or her dancing. These things happen, and Susie knows they do, otherwise she would have chosen a different outfit, or not gone out dancing. Susie is not so naive that she doesn't realize she will draw attention. Her outfit and her moves out on the floor (assuming she's dancing with her friends or by herself, as most girls do), do not, however, excuse random dudes thinking it's ok to grab or grope her. There's a difference between looking and touching.

Also, I am 30+ and wear makeup every day to work. I use good products, apply it tastefully and reasonably, and have very good skin. Bad skin is caused by many different things, not just wearing makeup. The reason my skin looks better than many women of my age or even younger is because I take care of it. I use sunscreen. I use good skin care, and I use it routinely. Wearing makeup doesn't make me trampy or sleazy. In my industry, it makes me professional, and, more importantly, I like it.

[blas87]

I definetly agree, monkeys.

I like wearing makeup, even if it's just the little bit I wear to look just to appear fresh and awake.

I don't think dying your hair or wearing makeup makes you desperate for attention. It's only desperate for attention if you think you can't live without looking the way you do all dolled up all the time, thinking you are worthless without makeup and a tan or your hair being colored.

I wish people weren't so judgemental about girls who do doll up and like to wear nicer clothes when they can. I like looking like a pretty girly girl. Sue me. I'm not wearing it to please everyone as much as I am making myself happy that, for once during the long week, I can look like a lady and not a tired factory worker.

[DesignFox]

Oh I agree on the make-up front.

I, personally, do not wear make-up. I don't feel that I "need" it.

I also have absolutely no problem with women who wear make-up...so long as they know what they hell they're doing. If make-up is used tastefully (and really, as it was meant to be used) it enhances the person's natural features and looks...well...good!

It's the clown mask women that I won't apologize for laughing at. If you've got so much gunk coated on your face that you are un-recognizable without it...I feel sorry for you for your low self image. THOSE women I totally don't understand. (or people who use the wrong cover-up and look orange...women who bring me their cell phones, and they use so much cover-up that the phone is COATED with it...ewww)

Anyway. The other end of the spectrum is how do other women feel about things like playboy and maxim? How do you guys feel about advertisements that clearly use women as objects to sell their products?

Personally, I disapprove. But I will not stop a woman who wants to exploit herself. And I won't censor such things. I just vote with my wallet.

Any company that has an ad campaign I disapprove of doesn't get my money.

[Flyndaran]

As a man I find advertising to men's objectifying of women is insulting to my intelligence... but they won't stop when it works so well.

As a man, you may think I have no right to have an opinion on makeup....But I absolutely hate the smell, so if my love muffin wants to kiss me then she won't wear it.l