This Really Bothers Me...

[blas87]

On CS and in dealing with people in general.

Why is it sometimes no one can just have a good healthy rant or tell a story, without always at least ONE person hopping and going, "But what if" or "Maybe this person is this" or "What if there's a slight chance that this person is"........seriously?

Sometimes I feel I can't even vent or share something going on in my life without someone having to question me and my beliefs or accusing me of making blanket statements.

A little over a month ago, I made a thread about one of my friends lying to get attention by saying he was losing weight at a rapid rate and going to the gym all the time, even though he is on disability from work.....then when questioned, he avoids the truth, walks around it, admits that he can't really do much at the gym..... then posted an update and then there was a reply regarding how I was making a blanket statement by saying that not all disabled people can't go to the gym and to quit assuming my friend is lying. Just where was the blanket statement? Was there even a reason to make several paragraphs explaining "Well this MAY be why this is happening to him?"

I'm probably in the minority here, but it kind of bugs me that sometimes people are just venting or sharing something that happened, and someone always has to hop in and steal the thunder with "But what if".......

[linguist]

maybe i just like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but i think calling someone a liar without having definitive proof that they're lying is a bit extreme and premature. sure, i understand venting, but it is possible to vent without leaping to conclusions.

[blas87]

Ever since I called him on it, he's quit posting about losing 10 lbs a week....he's quit bragging about working out.....hmmm......if he was telling the truth, even if people were bugging him about it, you'd think he'd still still be posting it because he knew it was the truth.

He's not a stranger online on a forum, he's a friend of mine. Granted I haven't seen him nearly as often as I used to, but I know he's lying. And I felt the need to call him on it because he wanted attention.

Definitive proof? In that thread, I never said people who are disabled CANNOT go to the gym, CANNOT work out, or CANNOT lose weight. I just found it a little odd that someone who can't even stand for 8 hours can do intense workouts that enable him to lose 10 lbs a week. I never said people stuck at home don't do anything but gain weight. NEVER fucking said that.

[Giggle Goose]

I can't stand that. I know people are trying to get you to think of a different perspective on things, but I think it can sometimes be insulting.

Like when they say "Did you think of..." and OF COURSE I did! When someone is constantly playing devil's advocate, it really makes you think that perhaps this person thinks you're not intelligent enough to make a reasonable conclusion.

But I usually stick to my guns and ignore it the best I can. Especially when I know that I was THERE and they WEREN'T so I would think I know better. Oh wait, that's a rash conclusion. Nevermind

[MaggieTheCat]

My mom does this all the time, and it used to really bother me. I'd come home from work and just want to vent about something, and instead of just being sympathetic, she'd get all up in arms about how I might be wrong, I might have mis-judged someone, etc.

Unfortunately, I think she passed the trait on to me, too, because the more I think about it, the more I realize that I do that a lot too.

[Boozy]

When someone is constantly playing devil's advocate, it really makes you think that perhaps this person thinks you're not intelligent enough to make a reasonable conclusion.

Often when people play "devil's advocate", they believe every word of what they're saying and are using that term because they don't have the balls to stand behind their beliefs.

[Flyndaran]

Hey now. I like to play devil's advocate mainly because I love being contrary especially when someone uses absolutes.

[Boozy]

That's two different things you're mentioning there.

It's one thing to use the "devil's advocate" tactic to point out flaws in someone's argument (such as using absolutes in non-concrete situations).

It's another thing to be contrary just for the sake of being contrary, which I think is what blas is venting about here.

And then there are people who just want to voice unpopular opinions, but are afraid of the fall-out, so they use the "devil's advocate" cop-out. That's what I was talking about.

[Flyndaran]

I was mostly kidding about the contrary part.
Though I do dislike an all pro-wank-fest discussion. Everyone going, "Ditto!" irritates me on a cellular level.

[Boozy]

I agree with you about the "Ditto-fest" threads. They drive me nuts.

Sometimes someone will post a sob story that has me thinking, "Gee, that sucks.... but your situation would have been much improved if you had done A, B, and C." But no one says this. It's all "OMG, your life is so horrible. You're so brave for dealing with those terrible customers/terrible job/terrible relatives." All in the guise of being "supportive."

"Supportive" to me means giving constructive feedback when I think it's required. I would never bite my tongue if a friend was doing something to make her situation worse and didn't realize it. Friends tell the truth, even when it's not something they want to hear.

[blas87]

I'm glad some people are getting what I'm talking about, and I really agree with Boozy's take on the devil's advocates....

[Peppergirl]

As you know, I get you. We've had a variation of this this conversation on FB.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me or offering a different point of view. But when it's obvious the POV is being offered *only* to 'fan the flames' or because they want the attention of being different and outrageous, it makes me crazy.

[blas87]

I know, and I respect when you have a different opinion or POV, because you (and a few others in this thread) are the types of people who tend to offer constructive advice or a more mature way of looking at something, versus just hopping in to share a different opinion just to stir the pot and sometimes steal the thread in doing so.

[guywithashovel]

This used to happen a lot on CS when I first found the site, which was back in 2003 (I've strayed away a few times since then). At the time, I lived in a part of the country known as Appalachia. I can remember one time I made a comment in one of the threads about how there were more than a few people in my area who fit the definition of "redneck" to a T---lazy, willfully ignorant, no respect for education, no interest in helping society become more productive, etc. Someone else replied to me and echoed what I had said. Next thing we knew, several Ph.D candidates in Modern PCism were up on their soapboxes making speeches about how we were making blanket statements and were being disrespectful, which was incorrect because neither one of us said that EVERYONE in this area was like this. Likewise, what we (the other poster and I) were saying was essentially correct. If you don't believe me, just come and hang out in this part of the country for a while. Better yet, some and live here for a year, and spend that year working at a discount retail store, grocery store, dollar store, or some other related business. I assure you, you will see what I mean. And once again, not everyone in that part of the country is like that. But there are enough people like that in order for the phenomenon to be noticeable. It's like saying, "Wow, women sure do like to go shopping and spend lots of money on clothes and shoes!" or "Men don't like to ask for directions when they're out driving." Yes, there are women who don't like to shop, and there are men who ask for directions when they don't know where they are. But there are enough members of both groups who fit both of these stereotypes in order for it to be noticeable.

[Nyoibo]

Often when people play "devil's advocate", they believe every word of what they're saying and are using that term because they don't have the balls to stand behind their beliefs.

Actually I play devils advocate frequently not believing a word of what I say, I just like a good arguement. I used to love debating.

That being said, the arguements I usually use are ones that I know people really do believe.