Following religions/cultures without research (nitpicking on Norse mythology)

[Flyndaran]

I bet Jesus didn't have his penis cut off tho. O.o

No, but christians pretend he never had one to begin with.
The idea that a 33 year old guy might NOT be a virgin really pissed them off.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

No, but christians pretend he never had one to begin with.
The idea that a 33 year old guy might NOT be a virgin really pissed them off.

Hmmm....I'm one and I don't think that. Nor does the idea of him using it piss me off.

I mean, I know quite a few Christians and it's not true of them, either.

I'm pretty sure that statement is faulty.

Here's my question for the OP: with respect, why does it irritate you? I mean, yeah, I get what you are saying, and to some extent, I agree with it. The difference is that I don't find it irritating. Stupid, lazy, yes. It doesn't effect me unless it's other Christians doing it. That's the only time I find it irritating.

The guy professing to worship Woden and not being able to discern church from D&D? Yeah, that guy is just playing at his toy religion. I'm not irritated that he's failed to research beyond the Deities and Demigods book by TSR. To me, he's just another sad sack trying to make his life interesting.

[Slytovhand]

I've got a few things to add...

Firstly, pretty much what the OP is all about... people who think that they're following the 'original' beliefs of whatever...bwahahahaha. For the most part, the old religions had either a nice bit of human sacrifice (certainly other animal sacrifice), and a lot of getting drunk and a fair bit of sex. So, if you're not doing either of those, it's unlikely you're actually anywhere near 'original'.

There's been a nice debate on my group about the runes and how they're used and interpreted... academic vs really historical.

TBH, 'wiccan's make me laugh a bit... as was said, it's incredibly young, as far as religions go. And is very much not like what a hedgewitch would normally have practiced (Terry Pratchett's witches is actually a very good example of what they were like).

There is a school of thought that suggests Jesus went to Egypt to train - hence why he jumps from being a young kid, to being about 30 years old and full of knowledge.


Stonehenge...<sigh> Well, as I'm sure you know, it's not likely the 'druids' had much to do with it.. although there's fair reason to suggest that druidry and Stonehenge are linked in some way, though the times don't match up. I can certainly see why they might have been 'proto-druids'.


Scientology is actually quite sane - probably the sanest of any 'religion'... presuming you actually bother to look into it, and not just listen to the hype or read the crap associated with it.

[BroomJockey]

Scientology is actually quite sane - probably the sanest of any 'religion'... presuming you actually bother to look into it, and not just listen to the hype or read the crap associated with it.

Err. Xenu chained prisoners to a volcano, nuked them, and now the ghosts infest people, causing problems? Pastafarianism makes more sense.

[Flyndaran]

...
Scientology is actually quite sane - probably the sanest of any 'religion'... presuming you actually bother to look into it, and not just listen to the hype or read the crap associated with it.

Nope. That one's wackier than catholicism, and that's saying something.
They insult my very existance with thier anti-psychology platform. That leaves with me special contempt for them.

[Mistress Of Foxes]

Here's my question for the OP: with respect, why does it irritate you? I mean, yeah, I get what you are saying, and to some extent, I agree with it. The difference is that I don't find it irritating. Stupid, lazy, yes. It doesn't effect me unless it's other Christians doing it. That's the only time I find it irritating.

The reason it irritates me so much with Norse mythology is both that it's incredibly lazy - I mean, even the Wikipedia article about it as fairly correct as far as I've seen, and they couldn't even bother looking at that - but also because it's part of my country's history and something I'm rather proud of - yes, I know about the brutality, murder, pillage, rape and such (something that the so called "true believers" of the New Age versions of Norse mythology tend to forget about...), but damnit, our old history and old religions are some of the few things I can make myself get a bit patriotic about.

In general, what irritates me about people trying to mimic cultures or religions that they don't bother research is that it kind of defeats the purpose of religions and such... Isn't the point of a religion to give you goals and structure in your life, if that's what you choose? I've always learned that if you follow a religion, it's because you agree with the views it has.

But then again, I also tend to get irritated when people follow a fad just because it's popular and not because it's actually something they'd like...


Edit: And really, people, this thread wasn't meant for people to bash religions or their followers in. Please just keep it in mind, alright? No one wants to anger the Gods Mods

[Slytovhand]

Let me just use a bit of emphasis!

presuming you actually bother to look into it, and not just listen to the hype or read the crap associated with it.

The argument from complete ignorance usually isn't considered a good debating tactic. Which, actually, is pretty much what this thread is about...

I notice no-one has brought up Native American too loudly!

And Foxes - religion bashing is fun

[Boozy]

The argument from complete ignorance usually isn't considered a good debating tactic.

I'm assuming that Broomjockey's statement was incorrect then? You haven't made that clear. Isn't the space opera the creation myth of Scientology?

[BlaqueKatt]

Err. Xenu chained prisoners to a volcano, nuked them, and now the ghosts infest people, causing problems? Pastafarianism makes more sense.

Hey you forgot the "hive mind" that all humans supposedly share(but block out), and that all humans are actually Gods-complete with magikal superhuman powers*, if they can just rid themselves of the alien ghosts, or Thetians if you will.

Sadly I know a bit too much about Scientology-they came very close to getting their hooks into me.


*telepathy, telekenesis, teleprtation, time travel, flying like superman-yeah all that, or so they claim

[BroomJockey]

Let me just use a bit of emphasis! The argument from complete ignorance usually isn't considered a good debating tactic.

Assuming you were talking to me, http://www.xenu.net/ has actual copies of Scientology documents that say *exactly* what I said, and they're legitimate because he's received numerous attempts to have them taken down by Scientologists.

[Slytovhand]

Firstly, the first and most important quote in all of scientology is "What's true for you, is true for you" - thus, being a Christian (for example) and a Scientologist is not a contradiction in terms. I happen to be a pagan, and use scientology methodology.. so, no, I don't have their 'creation myth'. And I didn't make it overly clear, because I've posted this stuff on two other threads - both specifically about scientology. If you want a better idea of what it's really about, I'll be happy to deliver.. but not in 'defense' of it, if you get what I mean.

BJ, yes, I was referring to your post (and Flyn's)....

Xenu.net... excellent source of information... if you're specifically looking to poke holes in things, and want to bypass anything good. Much like any other biased site that gets mentioned in a debate forum on here... and then gets attacked for its obvious bias (do you look to, as an example, a Mormon website for an unbiased view on whether gay marriage is a good idea or not? No?? Then using Xenu.net isn't a really good example in this case). If that's the only source you've got (that, and OperationClambake) - then yes, it's an argument from ignorance. Taking those as your source of information is the equivalent at pointing to the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition and saying "There's Christianity for you!". And those 'documents' are the equivalent of Leviticus in how to act, behave or believe.

How about www.ronsorg. com, the video of A Beginner's Guide to Scientology, Clearbird - an anti-Co$ but pro-scientology group (Co$ is the abbreviation used to designate the Church of taking people's money and using lot's of hype... and threats and intimidation etc), and Ex-Co$ kids who were brought up with it all... still interested in the actual techniques and theory... just not how the church runs things - and that's where all the bad stuff comes from. There's quite a few sites out there which indicate that there are people who have gotten right away from the church, but still follow the lore. (so, it's a schizm.. most sects have them).

Sure, you may look at those sites and still think "What a bunch of whackjobs"... but at least you get a much better picture of what it's actually about... rather than just making attacks on it.

BK - I do speak from personal knowledge. Scio has been around me for over a decade, I've read numerous books, undergone various courses, talked to those with (in some cases, decades of) experience with it. And I'm still sane.... well, ok... point taken.. but still..... But seriously, it is the techniques that are what makes scio what it is, not one book - nor one (or a whole church full) of robots.

Flyn, the anti-psychology is the Co$ doing seriously stupid things. Psychology is well mentioned in various books, and credited nicely, and in the early stages is said to be the forebear to scientology. Even psychiatry is given a bit of a thumbs up.. their only real problem with it was the shock treatment and the drugs used. But, the church has gone all crazy about it, and refuses to do anything smart these days (as the above links indicate).

[Flyndaran]

....
Flyn, the anti-psychology is the Co$ doing seriously stupid things. Psychology is well mentioned in various books, and credited nicely, and in the early stages is said to be the forebear to scientology. Even psychiatry is given a bit of a thumbs up.. their only real problem with it was the shock treatment and the drugs used. But, the church has gone all crazy about it, and refuses to do anything smart these days (as the above links indicate).

Their anti-drugs lunacy is what is a direct attack on me. I may be an atheist and consider all religions, and superstitions wrong, but most don't attack me directly. For that I will always have a special place in my mind despising scientology and its lovely psuedoscientific methods and name.

[BroomJockey]

Flyn, the anti-psychology is the Co$ doing seriously stupid things. Psychology is well mentioned in various books, and credited nicely, and in the early stages is said to be the forebear to scientology. Even psychiatry is given a bit of a thumbs up.. their only real problem with it was the shock treatment and the drugs used.

No, their problem with it is the CoS founder said that they wanted every psychologist arrested for a felony.

[Slytovhand]

But BroomJockey - Hubbard was a looney! He had his own wife investigated by the FBI during the McCarthy-ism era for being a communist (well, 'suspected'.. her lover he claimed was a full on 'red'). He was also full of crap, and the story of his life is one massive fabrication... he was even a psychiatric patientat one stage. The 'church' loves to tell how amazing and fantastic he was, but... well, he wasn't!


But - somehow, he still managed to come up with some good techniques for making a person's life better!

If you read his first book, Dianetics, he does give thumbs up and credit to psychology and psychiatry. As the years progressed (and his paranoia), things in that regard went steadily downhill. There were other people around who took some of the good stuff, and went with that... (they're the 'bad boys' in the eyes of the official church).

Flyn - what's the problem with that? I'm hearing other groups now getting onto the bandwagon that the scio's have been on for years... eg, Ritalin for kids.

(btw - nitpick - attacking drugs would only be 'attacking' you indirectly...).

FTR - I despise the church of $cio as well, and also for their 'psuedoscientific'... what's the word I'm looking for?? 'Crap'??? The name was taken from the Greek... no great issue there. Personally, I'd love to see some real scientific research done into it... and I know exactly how to set up the experiments as well...

Back more directly on topic... I loathe that wonderful little 'art and craft ornament' ... dreamcatchers!!!!! I mean, these are serious spiritual items used for a specific purpose, which is supposed to be made by the right sort of person... obviously, it doesn't help when Native Americans will just sell them off as souveneirs themselves... but... grrr!!!!!

[Flyndaran]

...
Flyn - what's the problem with that? I'm hearing other groups now getting onto the bandwagon that the scio's have been on for years... eg, Ritalin for kids.
...

I haven't heard of any other group so completely disregard psychiatry. Many people are wrongly prescribed drugs, just like many are wrongly NOT prescribed drugs. Mistakes happen.
Who says that drugs like ritalin should never be prescribed? That all it takes is superstitious mumbo jumbo to conquer? I guess there are those whack jobs that don't believe in any modern medicine and "prescribe" prayer for a broken leg or schitzophrenia.